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Climate Change Debate

You'll be pleased to know then Nimrod and Vis that Stoke Council and EON have a £10m project on this very system. It will power 2 of the 5 towns that make up Stoke.

It is seen as a pilot by EON for the area. Not sure what happens when it's a success.
 
do you know if anyone has protested it, as per fracking?

i don't think it's a surprise it's being piloted, though I didn't know eon were in on the act already. having worked for a utility we'd have been doing this stuff so it's good that they're looking at the next gen. I guess there's two types of success, it working technically with controllable hitches and it being sufficiently competitive. under CfD projects will have to bid a tariff, it's not a standard award.
 

The qualifications of the Parliamentary Audit Commitee tell you all you need to know:

Joan Walley: BA in Social Administration, Diploma in Community Work Development.

Peter Aldous: Degree in Land Management

Neil Carmichael: Studied politics

Martin Caton: Attended Norfolk School of Agriculture, and the Aberystwyth College of Further Education

Katy Clark: Law degree

Zac Goldsmith: 4 A'levels

Mike Kane: Former primary school teacher, has A'levels

Mark Lazarowicz: Degree in Law, MA in History

Caroline Lucas: BA in English Literature

Caroline Nokes: Degree in Politics

Matthew Offord: Doctor of Philosophy. Thesis: ‘Rural Governance and Economic Development: The Changing Landscape of Rural Local Government’ is an academic examination that considers whether changes introduced through the Local Government Act 2000 has introduced a measure of uniformity in the way rural councils work.

Dan Rogerson: Studied Politics at University of Wales Aberystwyth

Mrs Caroline Spelman: BA European Studies

Mark Spencer attended Shuttleworth Agricultural College

Alan Whitehead: PhD Political Science

Simon Wright: BSc and PGCE. Taught Maths
 
do you know if anyone has protested it, as per fracking?

i don't think it's a surprise it's being piloted, though I didn't know eon were in on the act already. having worked for a utility we'd have been doing this stuff so it's good that they're looking at the next gen. I guess there's two types of success, it working technically with controllable hitches and it being sufficiently competitive. under CfD projects will have to bid a tariff, it's not a standard award.

Research that shows real practical promise is welcome. We do however have pressing needs that need satisfying with established technology such as utilisation of hydrolylic fracturing for sourcing fuel.
 
The qualifications of the Parliamentary Audit Commitee tell you all you need to know:

Joan Walley: BA in Social Administration, Diploma in Community Work Development.

Peter Aldous: Degree in Land Management

Neil Carmichael: Studied politics

Martin Caton: Attended Norfolk School of Agriculture, and the Aberystwyth College of Further Education

Katy Clark: Law degree

Zac Goldsmith: 4 A'levels

Mike Kane: Former primary school teacher, has A'levels

Mark Lazarowicz: Degree in Law, MA in History

Caroline Lucas: BA in English Literature

Caroline Nokes: Degree in Politics

Matthew Offord: Doctor of Philosophy. Thesis: ‘Rural Governance and Economic Development: The Changing Landscape of Rural Local Government’ is an academic examination that considers whether changes introduced through the Local Government Act 2000 has introduced a measure of uniformity in the way rural councils work.

Dan Rogerson: Studied Politics at University of Wales Aberystwyth

Mrs Caroline Spelman: BA European Studies

Mark Spencer attended Shuttleworth Agricultural College

Alan Whitehead: PhD Political Science

Simon Wright: BSc and PGCE. Taught Maths

And your heroes:

James Delingpole : BA English LIterature
David Rose: BA History
 
do you know if anyone has protested it, as per fracking?

i don't think it's a surprise it's being piloted, though I didn't know eon were in on the act already. having worked for a utility we'd have been doing this stuff so it's good that they're looking at the next gen. I guess there's two types of success, it working technically with controllable hitches and it being sufficiently competitive. under CfD projects will have to bid a tariff, it's not a standard award.

The opposite, people have welcomed the project. It's all down to money I think as people have been promised lower power bills and (I'm guessing) nobody is going to protest that.

There have been no rent-a-mob demos either.
 
I think with fracking people are painfully aware that it's not only environmentally dubious, it's also not economically viable. Hence the protests.
 
Does anyone know what effect fracking has had on the environment in the USA?
 
I think with fracking people are painfully aware that it's not only environmentally dubious, it's also not economically viable. Hence the protests.

Oh I'm not saying fracking for gas is good but nobody has protested the Geothermal idea here and most think it's a good idea. Aren't they roughly the same thing (as Nimrod pointed out)?

It's a Labour area too and as far as I know local industry has backed the project as well as the local authority. I think if there were protests they would get hounded out pretty fast by all parties.
 
Oh I'm not saying fracking for gas is good but nobody has protested the Geothermal idea here and most think it's a good idea. Aren't they roughly the same thing (as Nimrod pointed out)?

It's a Labour area too and as far as I know local industry has backed the project as well as the local authority. I think if there were protests they would get hounded out pretty fast by all parties.

having had a quick look i'm not sure the stoke project is using the same tech as AltaRock. it may be the exploitation of a naturally arising fracture which would be less controversial. (ie it's already there, so exploit it)

the Alta tech as I understand would seek to create fractures through drilling, the benefit being it could be applied anywhere and the end system is self contained, whereas in a naturally arising fracture you may expect far more heat/energy loss
http://www.economist.com/news/business/21612193-why-geothermal-new-fracking-hot-rocks

i don't think the process is as extreme as shale fracking but there is ground risk so it could end up being thought of in the same way, especially if/when the shale developments start causing ground issues.
 
having had a quick look i'm not sure the stoke project is using the same tech as AltaRock. it may be the exploitation of a naturally arising fracture which would be less controversial. (ie it's already there, so exploit it)

That's the one. You'll know more than me on the energy produced but they reckon it can power (and heat) Hanley and Stoke. Impressive if it could.
 
That's the one. You'll know more than me on the energy produced but they reckon it can power (and heat) Hanley and Stoke. Impressive if it could.

i'm not an engineer, but this is not a new technology (as hgw suggests). there are geothermal projects all over the world. the Ormat company mentioned in the economist article has been doing this for donkeys years. it's underutilised in uk probably because we had natural fossil fuels. even AltaRock's tech has been developing since pre 2008.

what i can't say is what the cost comparison is. from what i recall of a past project (natural fracture), the company couldn't indicate precisely what the end power output could be. the range was something like 15MWe-30MWe, which is substantial. if the AltaRock self contained system eliminates the risk and end price is competitive then it would be a good environmental solution, less risky on costs/returns and hopefully deliverable anywhere.

note that the stoke scheme won't produce power at a cost that is on a par with fossil fuels (in the short term). if the offer is discounted prices to consumers that will be partly down to the various incentives the project gets. but the underlying source of power won't diminish so unlike fossil fuels consumers won't be subject to higher prices when reserves start to deplete.
 
Does anyone know what effect fracking has had on the environment in the USA?

Nothing conclusive one way or another that I'm aware of just yet but certain cohorts are certainly pissed off about it.
 
And your heroes:

James Delingpole : BA English LIterature
David Rose: BA History

Both are communicators and not misinformed policy makers. Anyone can take a view on their comment.
Both use sources that the Beeb and the Guardian will ignore because of dogmatic positions taken by such media outlets.
Only Bowie does Heroes for me.
 
i'm not an engineer, but this is not a new technology (as hgw suggests). there are geothermal projects all over the world. the Ormat company mentioned in the economist article has been doing this for donkeys years. it's underutilised in uk probably because we had natural fossil fuels. even AltaRock's tech has been developing since pre 2008.

what i can't say is what the cost comparison is. from what i recall of a past project (natural fracture), the company couldn't indicate precisely what the end power output could be. the range was something like 15MWe-30MWe, which is substantial. if the AltaRock self contained system eliminates the risk and end price is competitive then it would be a good environmental solution, less risky on costs/returns and hopefully deliverable anywhere.

note that the stoke scheme won't produce power at a cost that is on a par with fossil fuels (in the short term). if the offer is discounted prices to consumers that will be partly down to the various incentives the project gets. but the underlying source of power won't diminish so unlike fossil fuels consumers won't be subject to higher prices when reserves start to deplete.

We need 10s of GigaWatts though. Any new tecbnology needs to get to that especially if our transport is to be shifted to some utopian electrical system.
 
We need 10s of GigaWatts though. Any new tecbnology needs to get to that especially if our transport is to be shifted to some utopian electrical system.

thanks. here's a post of mine from march 2012. funny eh?

there's about 20GW scheduled to close down over the next ten years - that's old nuclear and plants like kingsnorth under the LCPD. that's a large percentage of our capacity and it's base load facilities in the main that are closing. given it'll take quite a while to build new nuclear and each plant will most likley go to a public enquiry that'll take forever we'll probably have to build more gas fired plants to ensure the lights stay on.

on the geothermal potential, from the economist article:
Doug Hollett, who oversees geothermal policy at the US Department of Energy, is one such fan. He points to a project the department worked on with Ormat, a leading geothermal firm, in Desert Peak, Nevada, where EGS boosted the productivity of an existing field by 38%; it also became the first EGS project to supply America’s power grid. Mr Hollett calculates that EGS adds capacity to existing fields at a cost of 2-5 cents per kilowatt-hour; for low-cost natural gas the equivalent is 6-7 cents. The department reckons that with EGS techniques, geothermal could eventually meet 10% of America’s electricity needs.

how many GW is 10% of America's needs?

just to note, as a nation, we are currently exporting huge amounts of biomass and waste fuels to europe. those are fuels, available today and for the last decade, that could provide baseload generation. all you would need is the government to allow the green investment bank to go ahead and develop sites to do it, instead of promoting a new industry that may not have been needed.

the potential shortfall in generation is also an inherent failure of privatisation. its a consequence of the error of political dogma.
 
thanks. here's a post of mine from march 2012. funny eh?



on the geothermal potential, from the economist article:
Doug Hollett, who oversees geothermal policy at the US Department of Energy, is one such fan. He points to a project the department worked on with Ormat, a leading geothermal firm, in Desert Peak, Nevada, where EGS boosted the productivity of an existing field by 38%; it also became the first EGS project to supply America’s power grid. Mr Hollett calculates that EGS adds capacity to existing fields at a cost of 2-5 cents per kilowatt-hour; for low-cost natural gas the equivalent is 6-7 cents. The department reckons that with EGS techniques, geothermal could eventually meet 10% of America’s electricity needs.

how many GW is 10% of America's needs?

just to note, as a nation, we are currently exporting huge amounts of biomass and waste fuels to europe. those are fuels, available today and for the last decade, that could provide baseload generation. all you would need is the government to allow the green investment bank to go ahead and develop sites to do it, instead of promoting a new industry that may not have been needed.

the potential shortfall in generation is also an inherent failure of privatisation. its a consequence of the error of political dogma.

The US has better access to geologicly active sites that may exploit geothermal, even then there are transmission issues.
Exactly what do you mean by biomass, some people seem to think that importing wood chippings from South Carolina to help power Drax constitutes biomass.
 
the potential shortfall in generation is also an inherent failure of privatisation. its a consequence of the error of political dogma.

Why has privitisation failed? It was the last Labour government that gave monopolies to the power companies for certain areas of generation, that is not privitisation at all but a mess that is neither productive or providing a solution to the consumers.

There need to be better government policy on this and I agree the current mess is politically driven from all parties.
 
Why has privitisation failed? It was the last Labour government that gave monopolies to the power companies for certain areas of generation, that is not privitisation at all but a mess that is neither productive or providing a solution to the consumers.

There need to be better government policy on this and I agree the current mess is politically driven from all parties.

Nail on the head with the last sentence.
 
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The US has better access to geologicly active sites that may exploit geothermal, even then there are transmission issues.

http://www.r-e-a.net/news/deep-geot...to-20-of-uk-electricity-and-heat-for-millions

Exactly what do you mean by biomass, some people seem to think that importing wood chippings from South Carolina to help power Drax constitutes biomass.

that’s an import, what’s it got to do with what we’re exporting?
 
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