Ched Evans + Adam Johnson court cases

[wolveslovefc]

not sure how the other guy has gotten away with it. Really makes no sense.

 

[arklowolf]

Seems there might be some new evidence and therefore the possibility his sentence may be quashed.

http://news.sky.com/story/1564189/ched-evans-conviction-referred-to-appeal-court

 

[The Bear]

Didn't want to clog up the other football threads with this but I'm bringing up the Johnson case again because it's annoyed me what I've read the last couple of days.

I see the girl has been laying it on thick in court, crying her eyes out for the jury and saying she regretted it all and she didn't expect to end up in court over it.

Yet she has been quoted as saying she never actually had sex with him but in an earlier statement she admitted she was "well up for it", and was annoyed when a later meeting they arranged where her friend admitted she intended to have sex with him didn't happen. She was also bragging to her mates over snapchat saying "he's picking me up this week and I'm riding him".

She also knew what she was doing was wrong and that it could get him into trouble yet she didn't care - "I wasn't protecting myself. It made no difference to me whether they knew about me and Adam Johnson. It was him who was going to suffer for it." But then says - "I didn't want that to happen to him. I saw myself as playing a part in it as well, I thought I'd done wrong too."


I'm sorry but this isn't an innocent young child who was led astray by an older man. She was very close to the legal age and was clearly sexually mature enough to want to have sex. She was up for it just as much as he was and she knew exactly what she was doing and that it was wrong. Yet she didn't seem to care that he could get into trouble for it, she was more interested in bragging to her mates about it.

The law means he's in the wrong and will deservedly get punished (I'm not disputing that), but she is hardly some innocent flower being taken advantage of. I think it stinks that when you have this sort of evidence of what happened that she won't get into any sort of trouble for it and will walk away looking like a helpless victim when clearly she wasn't.

I know people won't agree and will just keep quoting the law at me but that's my opinion and I'm not apologising for it. Social attitudes towards sex and the sexual maturity of teenagers have moved on a lot whilst the law simply hasn't IMO, and that needs to be looked at and updated to be not so one-sided.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I understand where you're coming from. She's obviously no angel. However - the key bit of evidence so far is that Johnson knew she was only just 15 and still carried on with his pursuit. That's all that matters really in this case when we're looking at intent; as a man in his late 20s who was fully aware of her age then he's bang to rights. All that needs determining is how far it really did go.

 

[The Bear]

Yep I agree with that and as I said he'll deservedly he punished for it. He's a monumental idiot for letting it happen.

It just irks me how the law and the subsequent public perception is so one-sided.

 

[Derby Wolf]

Didn't want to clog up the other football threads with this but I'm bringing up the Johnson case again because it's annoyed me what I've read the last couple of days.

I see the girl has been laying it on thick in court, crying her eyes out for the jury and saying she regretted it all and she didn't expect to end up in court over it.

Yet she has been quoted as saying she never actually had sex with him but in an earlier statement she admitted she was "well up for it", and was annoyed when a later meeting they arranged where her friend admitted she intended to have sex with him didn't happen. She was also bragging to her mates over snapchat saying "he's picking me up this week and I'm riding him".

She also knew what she was doing was wrong and that it could get him into trouble yet she didn't care - "I wasn't protecting myself. It made no difference to me whether they knew about me and Adam Johnson. It was him who was going to suffer for it." But then says - "I didn't want that to happen to him. I saw myself as playing a part in it as well, I thought I'd done wrong too."


I'm sorry but this isn't an innocent young child who was led astray by an older man. She was very close to the legal age and was clearly sexually mature enough to want to have sex. She was up for it just as much as he was and she knew exactly what she was doing and that it was wrong. Yet she didn't seem to care that he could get into trouble for it, she was more interested in bragging to her mates about it.

The law means he's in the wrong and will deservedly get punished (I'm not disputing that), but she is hardly some innocent flower being taken advantage of. I think it stinks that when you have this sort of evidence of what happened that she won't get into any sort of trouble for it and will walk away looking like a helpless victim when clearly she wasn't.

I know people won't agree and will just keep quoting the law at me but that's my opinion and I'm not apologising for it. Social attitudes towards sex and the sexual maturity of teenagers have moved on a lot whilst the law simply hasn't IMO, and that needs to be looked at and updated to be not so one-sided.

Doesn't 'all her wanting to do brag to her mates' also expose her actual maturity in the whole charade? Whilst consenting she wasn't particularly rational and it's that immaturity that added to the situation, I think overall you're quite right insomuch she probably isn't an angel and certainly not naive, but I do think the law doesn't just protect from the big bad wolf in these instances but also protects teenagers from themselves. Just a thought.

 

[The Bear]

Clearly it doesn't as she knew he could get into trouble yet still went ahead with it as she said that didn't bother her. Probably because she knew she wouldn't be the one facing a criminal sentence for it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not sure the legal ramifications entered her mind tbf. She's a besotted, 15 year old girl (with some pretty loose morals). The responsibility lies with Johnson here.

I had sex when I was 15 with a girl who was also 15, obviously illegal. Did the law enter either of our minds, almost certainly not. Did I consider myself mature enough to make that call at the time, yes, was I in reality, almost certainly not, same would probably apply to the girl. Although given she was such an easy lay I should probably look her up now

I would say the gap in maturity between 15 and 18 is massive.

 

[The Bear]

I'm not so sure the gap is that big in maturity. You get 15 year old girls going to clubs trying to pick up blokes all the time. Will they have changed that behaviour by the time they are 18? I doubt it.

 

[Alan]

Equally, though, at 15 you can't be so harsh on her. That could ruin her life before she even gets to be a developed person. She may not have matured much by 18 but do you still want this incident following her at 23? Hell, the whole experience is already probably traumatic for her.

To be frank, Bear, it kind of sounds like you want her charged with entrapment or the like. Seems to me she just wanted to get off with a footballer (and an ugly one at that); the "danger" of the age difference may have been a turn on for her (and him). Point being, I doubt she was in the process of the ordeal and thinking to herself "wow I really don't care if he gets slammed for statutory on this one".

 

[The Bear]

I don't want that at all Alan.

 

[Tony Towner]

Although I agree with your point re her not coming across as a shrinking violet in this, she wasn't even in her final year of secondary school when it happened. She was a child besotted by a professional footballer. She may have been using adult language, she may look older, she may have thought or indeed actually known exactly what she was doing but she was still a child. The law is there to protect her and equally importantly others who may not be as savvy.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Although I agree with your point re her not coming across as a shrinking violet in this, she wasn't even in her final year of secondary school when it happened. She was a child besotted by a professional footballer. She may have been using adult language, she may look older, she may have thought or indeed actually known exactly what she was doing but she was still a child. The law is there to protect her and equally importantly others who may not be as savvy.

Child being the key word here. Phrases like 'no angel' and the like really do trouble me when it comes to cases like this. A 15 year old girl with a 28 year old England international who is also one of her favourite players - the power differential here is off the scale. This wasn't some drunken fumble or a case of 'she looked about 20 in the club yer honour', this was a 28 year old (with a pregnant girlfriend at home) deciding he wanted to shag a 15 year old. This is all on him and whatever he gets he deserves.

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

Child being the key word here. Phrases like 'no angel' and the like really do trouble me when it comes to cases like this. A 15 year old girl with a 28 year old England international who is also one of her favourite players - the power differential here is off the scale. This wasn't some drunken fumble or a case of 'she looked about 20 in the club yer honour', this was a 28 year old (with a pregnant girlfriend at home) deciding he wanted to shag a 15 year old. This is all on him and whatever he gets he deserves.

Exactly this. He knew her age, he knew the potential ramifications, and if he had gotten away with it, he would have probably kept on doing it, either with her or other besotted fans.
He has to eat the charge on this one.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Exactly this. He knew her age, he knew the potential ramifications, and if he had gotten away with it, he would have probably kept on doing it, either with her or other besotted fans.
He has to eat the charge on this one.

I don't think he would've been a repeat offender, I think this is incident has been opportunistic rather than predatory.

His girlfriend was expecting so he's potentially gone a good while without any action, combination of dumb and horny never really ends well for anyone, throw in an adoring fan and it's all too easy for AJ to take advantage of, he obviously knew he was making a stupid move as he Googled the age of consent but he was acting with his dick rather than his brain so it was already too late.

 

[Dublin Drummer Wolf]

Agree with that too Mark, but when you hear he was Googling for the age of consent etc, that's the point where he should've stopped and realised the potential trouble he would be in if caught.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Agree with that too Mark, but when you hear he was Googling for the age of consent etc, that's the point where he should've stopped and realised the potential trouble he would be in if caught.

He Googled that after he'd already done stuff though didn't he? He went steaming in and then realised he'd fucked up then was looking to see if his fuck up was illegal as well as immoral.

 

[Sniffer]

I don't think he would've been a repeat offender, I think this is incident has been opportunistic rather than predatory.

His girlfriend was expecting so he's potentially gone a good while without any action, combination of dumb and horny never really ends well for anyone, throw in an adoring fan and it's all too easy for AJ to take advantage of, he obviously knew he was making a stupid move as he Googled the age of consent but he was acting with his dick rather than his brain so it was already too late.

Opportunistic is in a nightclub or on a night out. Sat in front of a computer, looking up the age of consent and then still arranging to visit is dumb beyond words. He had time to stop and think so I would call it predatory. He deserves everything he's going to get.

As for his Mrs when she is pregnant I'd doubt your assumption of no action unless it was through his choice. After birth, possibly.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Opportunistic is in a nightclub or on a night out. Sat in front of a computer, looking up the age of consent and then still arranging to visit is dumb beyond words. He had time to stop and think so I would call it predatory. He deserves everything he's going to get.

As for his Mrs when she is pregnant I'd doubt your assumption of no action unless it was through his choice. After birth, possibly.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[Langers]

Child being the key word here. Phrases like 'no angel' and the like really do trouble me when it comes to cases like this. A 15 year old girl with a 28 year old England international who is also one of her favourite players - the power differential here is off the scale. This wasn't some drunken fumble or a case of 'she looked about 20 in the club yer honour', this was a 28 year old (with a pregnant girlfriend at home) deciding he wanted to shag a 15 year old. This is all on him and whatever he gets he deserves.

Spot on.