Brighton 3-3 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[darlowolf64]

Right. I almost closed this thread last night because it just became a petty squabbling mess. It's horrible to try and read through and the actual football comments got lost.

If it starts up again today it WILL be closed.

Which is why I started a thread away from here so that the tedium could move elsewhere and football could be discussed in here but you chose to close it...

 

[AndyWolves]

I used to enjoy reading this forum because it wasnt reactionary vitriolic nonsense that you find in other corners of the internet and social media.

 

[jd1981]

I’m a bit lost as to where the threads at so I’ll just put what I think in here. Results aren’t inconsistent at the moment they’re not good at all.
It can’t be denied that since the 01/12 the results haven’t been good enough yes we’ve had a tough run but even still we should’ve averaged a point a game.
Performances have been erratic we had the ones v Chelsea and Spurs then we had Burnley and last night.
Injuries have hindered us but that’s a risk you take when buying a lot of players with an eye on the future.
It’s probably a blessing that crowds aren’t in because I think you’d have started to hear the first rumblings of discontent from a few.
Look it’s results that count and no manager is immune from criticism and being put under pressure.
Next two league games are huge, especially considering one is the BCD usually a game that can turn the masses if the result isn’t good.

 

[The Bear]

Which is why I started a thread away from here so that the tedium could move elsewhere and football could be discussed in here but you chose to close it...

People don't want to read it, it's only going to go one way. It's better if everyone just moves on.

 

[prawnking]

I used to enjoy reading this forum because it wasnt reactionary vitriolic nonsense that you find in other corners of the internet and social media.

Mate, you just literally expressed the definition of reactionary.

Make TWF Great Again

 

[The Bear]

FWIW my opinion on the game was
the penalty at the start of the 2nd half was a huge turning point and not what you'd expect from our most experienced player. Both the manager and Neves said in interviews afterwards that it was a huge mistake and changed the game.

However, Nuno kind of lost his bottle and put another CB on. Initially I thought we could do that but maintain possession by going 3-5-2 and not 3-4-3. That would have meant making a double switch with Otasowie coming on for Silva also, and leaving Neto and Traore up top. I reckon that could have worked with OO dropping deep to help out in the middle to retain possession.

But 3-4-3 killed us. It left Neves/Joao even more exposed and the front three isolated with Silva not having a great game so the ball never stuck with him.

To me it seems we need a central striker and midfielder in the window, purely for this sort of scenario. One to help the ball stick up front, and the other to help solidify the centre of the pitch to maintain possession. With both of those we may have kept all 3 points last night.

 

[malta mick]

So...
Firstly I didn't "pile in", i read through the verdict thread and found a post that was factually incorrect and explained why I believed that was the case.
Secondly to your posts...
Over 10 pages, from page 4 to 14 you made about 20 posts which all contained "attacks" on Joao Moutinho stating that the club must sell him, he is a liability in every single game and has cost us numerous matches. - While I believe that this opinion is wrong I do agree that he has been over played over the last 2 seasons and it is catching up with him so should have been given a rest on a number of occasions. I think that Otasowi has proved himself a capable player and, though young and lacking experience, he has shown that he is ready for some more game time. I would hope that part of his development will be more games ahead of Joao but don't underestimate the contribution that a player of Moutinho's class and experience can provide in the development of youngsters. I expect Joao to take his badges and try to move into coaching in the future when his career is over.
Rui Patricio - You also seem to have a bit of a downer on our keeper too but then suggest that John Ruddy replace him because "he is an England keeper". Ruddy has 1 cap, gained in 2012 as a substitute while Patricio has played 94 times for Portugal and is still their number one.
You stated that he needs to learn to command his box or "go back to Europe". That last bit is a very strange comment to make but as for command of the area, he is the best I've seen since Matt Murray at doing just that but he is possibly unsure or cautious because the defence has changed in front of him and isn't as composed as it has been in previous seasons. I'm not going to go tit for tat with world class saves or howlers that either Ruddy or Rui have made but will just say that Patricio is the #1 for Wolves for a reason and that is that he is the better of the two keepers.
Being a keeper is a lonely occupation because if an outfield player makes a mistake there is a chance for someone else to dig him out of trouble. When a keeper makes a mistake it usually leads to a goal against, see Ruddy in the Championship vs Norwich(?) when he was beaten in stoppage time by an Olivera shot from about 35yds, or the shot that was going wide that he somehow managed to scoop into out net against ? (I remember the mistake but not the team)
Equally Rui has dropped a clanger or two with the 1st minute Spurs goal being one that he will not be happy with although the Giroud one vs Arsenal is just one of those things. A powerful shot from close range that he got plenty on but was unable to keep out because of the position the ball found itself to the side of his body. It happens
Fabio Silva - I completely agree. There is no way he should be sent out on loan at the moment. He was supposed to come here and learn his trade from Jimenez but has found himself thrusted to the front because of the injury Raul suffered. There is currently no other striking option apart from playing with a 5'5 or 5'8 "false nine", a set up that I hate. The lack of striker option must be corrected as quickly as possible with a minimum loan forward in, allowing Fabio to still develop without being discarded.
We are also without 4 or 5 seasoned professionals and so, of course we are going to be a little light on options which is possibly why Nuno has relied on Joao a little too much

One final thing, you will find that people often use humor on here, especially after an aberration of a result that we experienced last night. Lighthearted and often flippant comments are not personal attacks on you or anyone else, don't be so thin skinned, and even Moderators are allowed to laugh at my poor attempts at humor if they find it funny. They are Wolves fans first, and moderate second

Fully agree with you Mike, however, I do think that Rui needs to be a bit more vocal than he currently is. Over several games now he has allowed defenders to play balls that could have been left resulting in more pressure from corners. There has also been times of hesitation when defenders are expecting him to come and claim balls that are rolling around the 6 yard box resulting in misdirected and hacked clearances. Still the best keeper we've had since MM though.

 

[sycophantia]

Think all the responses this morning have been balanced and got this thread back on track and I agree with every one of them......except the 2 or 3 points I disagree with.

 

[AndyWolves]

Mate, you just literally expressed the definition of reactionary.

Make TWF Great Again

Nah, I've thought this for a while but you put up with things don't you?

 

[Jabbawolf]

Having slept on things, we could have kept the same personnel and same formation this year, and maybe got a similar position.

However, we went for progression with players and shapes - we also hit a glut of injuries which has left us short of experience and unsure of setup.

That said, I’m sure we all want to get into the CL and compete for silverware - progress towards this was never going to be in a neat linear way - a step backwards, especially given some bad luck on the roster, as part of the eventual rise is a price worth paying.

I’ve seen enough in some isolated periods of play to see hope for the seasons to come - patience now is required.

 

[darlowolf64]

Fully agree with you Mike, however, I do think that Rui needs to be a bit more vocal than he currently is. Over several games now he has allowed defenders to play balls that could have been left resulting in more pressure from corners. There has also been times of hesitation when defenders are expecting him to come and claim balls that are rolling around the 6 yard box resulting in misdirected and hacked clearances. Still the best keeper we've had since MM though.

Hi Mick, hope you're keeping well...

As I said, I think a lot of the uncertainty comes from constant changing from a back 3/5 to a 4 plus new players coming in, the Boly injury and, before that, his drop in form so I guess he just needs to get back to commanding and take them and the ball if they get in his way!

I don't think that the tolls of the last season can be underestimated on all of the players either. Nuno needs to sort things out quickly and players returning to fitness plus the odd new signing will go a long way to helping

 

[prawnking]

FWIW my opinion on the game was that the penalty at the start of the 2nd half was a huge turning point and not what you'd expect from our most experienced player. Both the manager and Neves said in interviews afterwards that it was a huge mistake and changed the game.

However, Nuno kind of lost his bottle and put another CB on. Initially I thought we could do that but maintain the CM by going 3-5-2 and not 3-4-3. That would have meant making a double switch with Otasowie coming on for Silva also, and leaving Neto and Traore up top. I reckon that could have worked with OO dropping deep to help out in the middle to retain possession.

But 3-4-3 killed us. It left Neves/Joao even more exposed and the front three isolated with Silva not having a great game so the ball never stuck with him.

To me it seems we need a central striker and midfielder in the window, purely for this sort of scenario. One to help the ball stick up front, and the other to help solidify the centre of rhe pitch to maintain possession. With both of those we may have kept all 3 points last night.

I agree about the extra personnel, but it concerns me more and more that we may have bitten off more than we can chew by undertaking this playing evolution/ transition of Nuno's right now. Going to seem more like revolution if we're adding another couple of first teamers.

Nuno seems a bit frazzled to me, and implementing various formations and playing styles as well as new players is a new challenge for him at Wolves, with the most important thing being the unity and tightness of the squad. We had this in spades in the Doc and Jota days, second half yesterday it looked under strain

 

[The Bear]

With the pandemic and quick turnaround it may have been a season too fast. But then again we had offers in for Jota and Doherty so Nuno probably decided to accelerate it slightly and take the offers while we could.

 

[prawnking]

Having slept on things, we could have kept the same personnel and same formation this year, and maybe got a similar position.

However, we went for progression with players and shapes - we also hit a glut of injuries which has left us short of experience and unsure of setup.

That said, I’m sure we all want to get into the CL and compete for silverware - progress towards this was never going to be in a neat linear way - a step backwards, especially given some bad luck on the roster, as part of the eventual rise is a price worth paying.

I’ve seen enough in some isolated periods of play to see hope for the seasons to come - patience now is required.

I agree there have been green shoots of progress here and there, especially the last couple of games (up to the Brighton second half!) ; the mettle of a PL manager is probably keeping the disruption to a minimum when these kind of transitions take place.

I feel like we're in new waters for Nuno, seems like he's a natural conservative trying to be a radical. That does him credit but it's a big change for him.

As far as patience goes, the target for me is having a strong final third of the season (obvs we're not there yet), at least performance-wise

 

[Premier Quality]

You shouldn’t underestimate the impact of the injuries were suffering at the moment. Any team losing their best centre back, most consistent full back, main striker and goal scorer, and regular starters from central midfield, forward and full back at the same time would struggle.

 

[Tony Towner]

Whether the attempts of an evolution of style and personnel have come a season too early or not, the biggest concern for me is the number of soft goals we now concede. It doesn't matter on personnel or formation we always have a clanger in us.

Take last night as an example. The first the centre half loses his man when making a standard run - we concede this type of ball watching goal frequently. The second is a brainless penalty, which can happen but that's the third this season - Moutinho, Saiss and Semedo, all of which turned the game away from us. The third a big centre half powering in a header from a run from the edge of the box with the blocker not doing their job and the ball going over our centre half marking zonally on the 6 yard line. The same goal as Sheff Utd scored at the end of last season and similar to Arsenal this.

Add Rui conceding goals against Spurs, Chelsea and Newcastle which he should do better with and we've lost that ability to be difficult to break down/score against whilst - yesterday aside, continuing to not be prolific at the other end. That also excludes the 2 games where we got humped.

 

[prawnking]

Undoubtedly injuries can't be discounted, but there are caveats. I'm never a fan of blaming the fates for everything.

I'd say Raul is the biggest miss from that list by far, but you have to say the choice to not have another senior central striker since Cutrone now looks like a mistake.

Jonny has been injured for about five months, so hardly a new blow. I agree we need to get Marcal back ASAP to take the focus entirely off RAN though.

I don't feel Boly has been at his best this season (neither was Raul tbh), maybe isn't suited to a two anyway and Kilman is a decent replacement in a three.

We miss Donk's versatility, but he wasn't tearing it up either, and we could have certainly made more use of OO since he's been out.

Yesterdays team still had plenty of experience and ability : Rui, Coady, Saiss, Semedo, Neves, Moutinho, Traore

 

[Throbber3]

You shouldn’t underestimate the impact of the injuries were suffering at the moment. Any team losing their best centre back, most consistent full back, main striker and goal scorer, and regular starters from central midfield, forward and full back at the same time would struggle.

Not to mention it is Nunos choice to run the smallest premier League squad. That gives strain on each end.

 

[Premier Quality]

I have to say also - there’s been a lot of talk of the blockers not working for the third goal - but there’s a limit to the amount of blocking you can do without it just being a penalty. He ran about 10 yards to get his head on the ball, you can’t block someone for ten yards.

my view is that Kilman went with the wrong man (Dunk is the danger for Brighton, not Webster), and we were very naive not to have anyone at all defending the back half of the goal.

I just thought we were really poorly set up for the goal.

 

[Premier Quality]

It’s now easy to say we should have had a more experienced replacement for Raul available, but in pre season the conversation was that it’s almost impossible to get someone as backup to Raul as he never got injured and had played almost every minute of the previous two seasons.