Arsenal (H) - verdict

[sycophantia]

Lots of over reaction on here imo, we weren't that bad, we played the way we always play, its just every player was a little below par, every pass was slightly over/under hit and not quite accurate enough. Fine margins, they were not vastly superior to us, got a spawny deflection for the first goal and Traore should do better with his chance. Disappointing but not a trainwreck of a performance.

 

[jd1981]

Lots of over reaction on here imo, we weren't that bad, we played the way we always play, its just every player was a little below par, every pass was slightly over/under hit and not quite accurate enough. Fine margins, they were not vastly superior to us, got a spawny deflection for the first goal and Traore should do better with his chance. Disappointing but not a trainwreck of a performance.

Hmm your right it wasn’t a train wreck but the difference between today and the other 3 games is we generally had control of those games and managed each one well plus defended properly. Other than a 15 minute spell today we never looked in control. It would be not a bad performance if we were a side happy to survive or sit in mid table, reality is if we have ambitions of competing at this level performances need to be at a higher level.

 

[sycophantia]

Hmm your right it wasn’t a train wreck but the difference between today and the other 3 games is we generally had control of those games and managed each one well plus defended properly. Other than a 15 minute spell today we never looked in control. It would be not a bad performance if we were a side happy to survive or sit in mid table, reality is if we have ambitions of competing at this level performances need to be at a higher level.

I agree most of this, as I said everyone was a little bit off it, going to happen sometimes and providing it doesn't happen too often we'll be fine. Think everyone just got a bit over excited (me included) after the last 3 games

 

[Pablowolf]

Lots of over reaction on here imo, we weren't that bad, we played the way we always play, its just every player was a little below par, every pass was slightly over/under hit and not quite accurate enough. Fine margins, they were not vastly superior to us, got a spawny deflection for the first goal and Traore should do better with his chance. Disappointing but not a trainwreck of a performance.

You must be new here. Welcome to TWF.

 

[Jinky]

Who would you replace him with?

Dias, please.

Bad day at the office - it happens. Nuno will make sure we react positively on Wednesday. Three points there and things are looking alright again, but the table is looking very tight now. Said it all along, but I’d be delighted with qualifying for the Europa League again next season.

 

[Paul]

but you can't commend it when it works and criticise it when it doesn't

Of course you can, not in the same game you can't (although shockingly people do have different opinions on things, I know, I was reeling as well ...) But in different games with different outcomes then yes you can have a different opinion of something ?

 

[Charlie Wolf]

I agree most of this, as I said everyone was a little bit off it, going to happen sometimes and providing it doesn't happen too often we'll be fine. Think everyone just got a bit over excited (me included) after the last 3 games

I guess we will have a better indication at the end of next week when we would have played three better team by then to the first three

Win the next two and Arsenal game will have just been on of those bad days at the office that every team gets, lose them and let’s see the reaction. Frankly I would rip your hand off for 4 points from the next two games now based on yesterday’s performance

 

[Tony Towner]

Of course you can, not in the same game you can't (although shockingly people do have different opinions on things, I know, I was reeling as well ...) But in different games with different outcomes then yes you can have a different opinion of something ?

Yes you can, if you are a hypocrite. We have played the first 4 games with the same outlook -contain in the first half and overpower in the second when legs are getting tired. Yesterday was identical until a poor piece of defending,notably from our best centre half and an excellent finish. It wasn't any more lacklustre or the players weren't any less up for it than the three games which preceded it. You can criticise the formation, where he played Traore, the Doherty loopy throw ins, but not the approach unless you've been doing the same thing for the last fortnight.

The second half then becomes a different game, there's elements of the approach to that you can look at. I understand why Nuno wanted his most dangerous 4 on the pitch at the same time but I think he needs to rethink how he does that. Traore was starting to get into the game and that was nullified by putting him to rwb. Personally I'd have taken Coady off and gone 442/433. 3 at the back remains our best starting formation in whichever iteration, but I do think there's times when it needs to be sacrificed when chasing a game, even if that opens you up more to the sucker punch.

 

[YoungWolf]

Yes you can, if you are a hypocrite. We have played the first 4 games with the same outlook -contain in the first half and overpower in the second when legs are getting tired. Yesterday was identical until a poor piece of defending,notably from our best centre half and an excellent finish. It wasn't any more lacklustre or the players weren't any less up for it than the three games which preceded it. You can criticise the formation, where he played Traore, the Doherty loopy throw ins, but not the approach unless you've been doing the same thing for the last fortnight.

The second half then becomes a different game, there's elements of the approach to that you can look at. I understand why Nuno wanted his most dangerous 4 on the pitch at the same time but I think he needs to rethink how he does that. Traore was starting to get into the game and that was nullified by putting him to rwb. Personally I'd have taken Coady off and gone 442/433. 3 at the back remains our best starting formation in whichever iteration, but I do think there's times when it needs to be sacrificed when chasing a game, even if that opens you up more to the sucker punch.

Agree with this a lot. I think if we wanted to get Neto on the pitch we just take Adama off (which I wouldn't have been against considering the upcoming schedule). Or you just leave it as it was as Jota impacted the game really well when he came on and was really opening them up initially creating spaces for Traore

 

[sycophantia]

I guess we will have a better indication at the end of next week when we would have played three better team by then to the first three

Win the next two and Arsenal game will have just been on of those bad days at the office that every team gets, lose them and let’s see the reaction. Frankly I would rip your hand off for 4 points from the next two games now based on yesterday’s performance

Thats the thing isn't it, we'd had 3 near perfect playing and coaching performances and followed them with a sub par one. We could still finish 4th, we could still finish 8/9th, both unlikely. We just don't go on losing runs. My gut feeling is we will just about make 6th and I'd be happy with that

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We weren't *that* bad, obviously conceding right before half time isn't ideal but it was a fairly even game until then. I don't like Adama up front that much as he doesn't impact on the game enough, should have scored at least one though.

These things happen, we were never going to win every game. On to Wednesday.

No more long throws though please, I wouldn't mind if we were good at them. Doc throws like a girl.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

We will never play a flat back four under Nuno. Never.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We will never play a flat back four under Nuno. Never.

We did away at Fulham in the Champo for the last 10-15. Coady went into midfield (nearly set up a goal too)

 

[sycophantia]

We weren't *that* bad, obviously conceding right before half time isn't ideal but it was a fairly even game until then. I don't like Adama up front that much as he doesn't impact on the game enough, should have scored at least one though.

These things happen, we were never going to win every game. On to Wednesday.

No more long throws though please, I wouldn't mind if we were good at them. Doc throws like a girl.

Agree with every word of this

 

[Nando]

I actually thought we showed more glimpses in the first half yesterday than in the three preceding games in an attacking sense. It was by no means an onslaught, but I thought we were comfortable and the more likely team to nab something.

The goal was hugely frustrating, particularly as Saka was bloody awful beforehand. We played well at the start of the second half and if Adama converts I'd have had full confidence in us winning the game.

The Doc/Adama switch seemed to completely kill the shape of the team and we were as ragged as we've looked for a long, long time.

 

[Tredman]

MGW is perhaps the one we should have brought on earlier, he’s pretty much the only one we have who can play as an attacking CM. That would have meant taking Neves or Moutinho off though.

 

[Norman Deeley]

I think you need to look at it from both angles. We weren't that bad last night. OK, but were we really that good against WHU/Bournemouth/Villa? Newcastle put 4 past Bournemouth, Man United 5. We've scored 4 goals in 4 games, compared to 9 each for Chelsea and Arsenal and 12 for Man United. Like someone has said above, I'd snatch your hand off for 4 pts from the next two. And snatch both your hands off for sixth. But if we're to seriously challenge for the top 4 at least 3 players need upgrades.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

But if we're to seriously challenge for the top 4 at least 3 players need upgrades.

Aye, probably. But that's a seriously high bar, and this is only our second season in the league.

Which teams have come up and done as well as we've done? Ipswich 20 years ago but they only did it for one season, they went down the year after. Blackburn, Forest and Newcastle in the very early days of the PL when the landscape was entirely different. That's about it.

I don't mind people dreaming of the CL, it still isn't out of the equation (a long shot though) but you've got to remember where we've come from. It's only just over three years since I was watching Lonners flap around and Edwards hiding from the ball.

Back to back European football of any kind would be quite the achievement. Then we have another shot if we get past Olympiacos (we should).

 

[Premier Quality]

I get Tony’s point if people said we were amazing in the first three games, and are now saying we were shite against arsenal, but I don’t think that’s what’s been said.

We set up to not concede in the first 60 minutes, and move the opposition around so they are knackered for the last half hour when we up the tempo and try and score - that’s our traditional game plan whether we are in 3-5-2 or 3-4-3.

The concern is that that can work - hence winning the last 3, and defensively we’ve been superb in those games - butthe problem comes when we concede a goal and the opposition sit back, it’s then hard to score two in that last period.

For me, I prefer the 3-4-3, because we have more ability to disrupt the opposition and score before the last 30 minutes, and we’ve built up 4 wide players so we can refresh with subs if we need to.

3-5-2 is a more defensive formation, and relies on brilliance from Jiminez and his partner to get through the opposition. We do have Donk to run past the strikers, but he doesn’t have the skill set to create much at all for the two strikers.

My preference this summer if we are going to stick with this formation for as many games as we have this year would be to replace Donk - his defensive work is excellent, but I’d get someone potentially not quite as good defensively, but who has the ability to help the front two unlock the other team - that would be our step up. Soumare from Lille would be my choice. That would change us from aiming to just not concede for an hour to still being tight defensively, but being far more likely to score a goal whilst we do so.

 

[Kenny]

I don't mind people dreaming of the CL, it still isn't out of the equation (a long shot though) but you've got to remember where we've come from. .

As I said to you last night we are 2 or 3 quality players away from being a top 4 worthy and 4 years ago were a Division, Full Squad, Manager and Owners away, Thats moving at some pace.

I won't buy this was a golden chance that we might not see again, simply because of who is our manager and the owners behind him.

Yesterday was annoying as you know we have more in us and we could have prevented both goals but taking nothing away from the finishes on both them, top quality. As mentioned earlier we seem to leggy after we have had a full week off and, unlike Villa, seem primed to play 3 games in a week. Probably one of those new myths but that how it feels