Wolves Academy Thread

[YoungWolf]

Game starting now. On YouTube and wolves app. Same team as last couple of rounds

 

[YoungWolf]

1-0 down. Not managed to get hold of the ball yet. Poor defending really to allow the ball through.

 

[YoungWolf]

1-0 half time. Took a change of shape (343 to 433, Tipton stepping into midfield) to get into the game. Just allowed our boys to play a bit higher. Look vulnerable if United get past our midfielder though.

Roberts our most dangerous. Two bookings for fouls on him and should have been at least one more. Fraser missed a really good chance

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Poor defending for the second, Wolves no. 2 got himself in a tangle following the wrong man when the ball was played forward and then beat easily to allow the other guy to score.

 

[Johnny75]

They’ve given it a good effort and there’s some good players in that squad but Utd have won comfortably. Understandably they’ve just got better players.

 

[AndyWolves]

Well done to the lads for getting this far. There are some bright lights in this u18 team.

This 3 at the back thing needs to do one now. It's endemic at the club.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Why does three at the back have to be a bad thing?

 

[Tony Towner]

I don't think you should make your U18s play the same formation as the first team. Statistically the manager will be long gone before they are first team players, if they ever are. I do think it makes sense at U23 level, but not further down. Pick the formation which best suits the players you have. I don't have any idea whether that's the case here, but Davis switching it up after 30 mins would suggest it's not

 

[AndyWolves]

Best I've ever seen our u23s play was when they played a back four of Scott, Marques, Lonwijk and Richards

 

[AndyWolves]

Why does three at the back have to be a bad thing?

From what I saw the u18s were suffering the same issues as we see in the first team.

We get pressed high and can't get out. We play deep and then pump long balls to an isolated forward who cant do anything with it.

Switching to a back 4 and putting an extra player in midfield brought us back into contention.

 

[PuntsWolf]

From what I saw the u18s were suffering the same issues as we see in the first team.

We get pressed high and can't get out. We play deep and then pump long balls to an isolated forward who cant do anything with it.

Switching to a back 4 and putting an extra player in midfield brought us back into contention.

But how would changing formation affect your ability to handle the press? If your not good enough in possesion to beat a press then you’ll fail either way. Playing a 4 gives you better percentages on hoof ball though

 

[AndyWolves]

But how would changing formation affect your ability to handle the press? If your not good enough in possesion to beat a press then you’ll fail either way. Playing a 4 gives you better percentages on hoof ball though

More players further up the pitch. The risk / reward when trying to beat the press playing with effectively 5 at the back is awful. Even if you do beat the press you have nowhere to go because everyone is so deep.

The oppo has less threat to worry about because we're trying to play football in area that won't hurt them and we have less players in areas that can hurt the oppo.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

More players further up the pitch. The risk / reward when trying to beat the press playing with effectively 5 at the back is awful. Even if you do beat the press you have nowhere to go because everyone is so deep.

The oppo has less threat to worry about because we're trying to play football in area that won't hurt them and we have less players in areas that can hurt the oppo.

You've still got the same number of players on the pitch as the opposition, they've just got to work harder to find space than the opposition trying to close it down. It's not like a game of table football where figures are banded together in blocks, they are allowed to move despite Wolves often seeming determined to prove otherwise.

 

[AndyWolves]

You've still got the same number of players on the pitch as the opposition, they've just got to work harder to find space than the opposition trying to close it down. It's not like a game of table football where figures are banded together in blocks, they are allowed to move despite Wolves often seeming determined to prove otherwise.

I'd prefer my opposition players to be as far away from my goal as possible. If they have 5 defenders rather than 4 defenders that's one less player who can hurt me so I can press with more players.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I'd prefer my opposition players to be as far away from my goal as possible. If they have 5 defenders rather than 4 defenders that's one less player who can hurt me so I can press with more players.

This sort of thing is determined by far more than the written formation, the general mentality of the team is far more important. How high are the team playing? How are the midfield and the wingbacks playing in relation to the back three? It doesn't have to be a flat 5 across the edge of the 18 yard box.

It's way too simplistic to think an extra defender in a line up instantly means it's negative and drags the team deeper. Look how deep Burnley play compared to Chelsea, look how well Juve used to play out from the back with three centre halves. It's not the handicap it's made out to be.

 

[AndyWolves]

It's risk Vs reward. Even if we beat the press the risk to the opposition is less if we have more of our players in defensive positions.

The more players we move up the pitch the more risk to the opposition if we beat the press hence the less likely the opposition are to press with as many players..... because they need to cover the threat.

 

[Johnny75]

But how would changing formation affect your ability to handle the press? If your not good enough in possesion to beat a press then you’ll fail either way. Playing a 4 gives you better percentages on hoof ball though

I’d agree in general but our tactics with 3 at the back mean the movement in front is non-existent and so the only pass on is sideways, backward or the hoof.

Our movement is much better with 4 at the back. More options with the ball and less opposition players pressing. Our CB’s often step out with the ball and beat the press with the dribble.

Ability isn’t stopping the players beat the press the riigidity and tactical flaws of 3 at the back are.

This is why whoever came up with the plan for the current system needs binning, it’s hurting the club at every level.

 

[PuntsWolf]

It's risk Vs reward. Even if we beat the press the risk to the opposition is less if we have more of our players in defensive positions.

The more players we move up the pitch the more risk to the opposition if we beat the press hence the less likely the opposition are to press with as many players..... because they need to cover the threat.

But if you’re playing a back 3, you can quite easily have less players at the back than a back 4? Like we did at Spurs.

I’d agree in general but our tactics with 3 at the back mean the movement in front is non-existent and so the only pass on is sideways, backward or the hoof.

Our movement is much better with 4 at the back. More options with the ball and less opposition players pressing. Our CB’s often step out with the ball and beat the press with the dribble.

Ability isn’t stopping the players beat the press the riigidity and tactical flaws of 3 at the back are.

This is why whoever came up with the plan for the current system needs binning, it’s hurting the club at every level.

Can’t speak for the U23s but in the first team movement is no better. The times we’ve gone to a 4 a few times this season and even against ten men twice have looked more useless.

We also end up with Neves dropping into to CB to receive the ball so we end up no better off, if anything worse.

My gut would tell me it isn’t ability but then evidence to the contrary suggests otherwise.

But it’s not the formation causing the problems. It’s either the individuals or what the individuals are being asked to do. We could quite easily be just as shit in a 4 if the individuals are the same and the tactics are the same.

 

[Tony Towner]

Doesn't so much depend on your wing backs and them being comfortable going forwards as opposed to full backs shoved out wide? Essentially you then aren't losing an attacking player it is just about formation.Taking the example to the extremes compare James and Chilwell to Marcal and Hoever.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Doesn't so much depend on your wing backs and them being comfortable going forwards as opposed to full backs shoved out wide? Essentially you then aren't losing an attacking player it is just about formation.Taking the example to the extremes compare James and Chilwell to Marcal and Hoever.

Well yeah. But they aren’t going to play out then back any better in a 4 becuse they aren’t good enough. Not because of the formation they are playing in.