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Wolves 2-1 Arsenal: Verdict Thread

It's a bit odd in a sense that Coady is the one with the most negative mentality in those situations, given than he's played a fair bit of senior football as a central midfield you'd expect it would've been more difficult to shift the mentality where he can put himself about a bit more and take more risk to win the ball knowing there is another line of defence behind him. I know he's much better rehearsed in that defensive role over the last few years but still seems strange that he's the least likely, when surrounded by people who have only ever played as defenders for the most part, to make the mistake of being too keen to try and steal the ball, leaving himself over exposed and out of position.

They need to balance it out sooner rather than later though if they want to be more assertive in games going forwards, was much easier to assess with the old low block as it was nearly always a case of dropping off, holding your line and keeping yourself between ball and goal. That doesn't work if you're trying to play higher up the pitch, you just end up stretching the pitch to the advantage of your opponent with huge gaps between the lines to be exploited, which we've seen happen already in some games this season. They need to be confident at times in pushing up as a unit and playing for offsides. Though it's a lot easier to have the confidence in doing that if you've got either or both of i) some pace in the backline to recover if it goes wrong ii) a keeper who's sharp enough off his line to pick off any overhit passes in behind, neither of which Wolves really have at the moment.

They did manage to do this a couple of times which gives me a bit of hope. You can see where a centre back to go next to Boly is needed anyway!
 
. Though it's a lot easier to have the confidence in doing that if you've got either or both of i) some pace in the backline to recover if it goes wrong ii) a keeper who's sharp enough off his line to pick off any overhit passes in behind, neither of which Wolves really have at the moment.
Rui having zero interest in leaving his line is a problem. Very strange as well when pre Wolves he’s literally only played in top teams.

Nothing worse than as a CB running back to your own goal with someone quicker than you running behind/alongside and you are begging your keeper to just come and bail you out but they are retreating to their line.

Obviously you don’t want them to do a Leno, but the long straight balls you should be able to read if you’re going to get their first very easily.
 
They did manage to do this a couple of times which gives me a bit of hope. You can see where a centre back to go next to Boly is needed anyway!
It'll be interesting to see if they can improve it, seem to remember they had a lot of success in the Championship with a high-ish line in transition and managed to end a fair amount of attacks early on the transition when teams tried to long, after Coady shook that habit of misjudging every long ball that came his way anyway! Was only under more sustained attacking pressure that they tended to recede deeper with the defensive line. It'll be a challenge though, it's certainly a lot easier to practice that passive, restrained, disciplined shape when you're dropping off to restrict shape in behind because you're much less affected by the opposition in your thinking, when you're stepping out and trying to restrict their space higher up the pitch you're much more susceptible to their movements and what they do with the ball dragging you out of shape.

It needs to be a whole team change to make it work, you can't shift your defensive line 10 yards or more up the pitch and still have everyone ahead of them continuing to be so passive, players at this level have far too much talent to fail to pick that apart, a high line can only work with pressure on the passer. Would be more comfortable to attempt the experiment if you had the extra safety net of a quicker backline and/or a keeper that's happy to sweep up too but I think they're going to be difficult elements for Wolves to incorporate immediately so even if they push through that change I still think they'd struggle at times against the very best off the shoulder strikers or occasional fluke ball in behind.
 
A higher defensive line requires more speed with the 2 CB, and we know Coady is slower than a carthorse with a full load of hay on the back of him!
Without that speed we would get picked off every match. I like the back 4 idea ,with the 4-2-3-1, but we need someone with Boly, and i don't think it's Coady or Kilman, as much as Coady as a captain is fantastic as a leader. Kilman is a good central defender too, but as we saw tonight is a hair behind Coady in the carthorse stakes.
 
They summed it up well saying Arsenal defend as a team since switching to a 4, which we don't at the moment necessarily and that can make a 4 more defensively solid. When we had Raul he was very good at defending from the front and often dropped back to muck in, and if Jose, Traore, Neto et al chip in with doing their defensive duties we will probably find a 4 works well for us. Neves and Moutinho were better at dropping back tonight and chipping in.
 
Well at least we got the win we badly needed. I said at half time that i just wanted us to boss the 2nd half and we did that and had we been playing well recently think we would have scored more but Moutinho's strike was enough.

Most of what i thought about the game has already been said i think. We need to play a back 4 in most games as it just means we have to attack or have players in attacking positions. We do need work on our line and pressing though as play like the first 20 minutes in most game and we're 3 down. Hopefully this win kicks us on now and gives the players some confidence which being low also doesn't help.

Just on the players, Semedo is a such as weird footballer. Looks so good then so bad far too often. His defending for the goal and to give the last free kick away were just woeful. Like the fact that he's started to come inside with the ball though. WIllian Jose is gonna be a good signing, we absolutely need to play on the front foot more though and get players close enough to link with him and he will score goals. Great hit by Moutinho and ran the game second half but he was so poor in the first half, maybe the goal sparks something for 3 months. I know Adama splits opinion and rightly so but he's still adding things to his game which is encouraging, couple of times he just did the old knock and run past Cedric, played a couple of give and go's and also kept the ball moving quickly at times and looked to link up with others. Oh and given time Vitinha could be some player.

Arsenal pretty much gave us the game tonight but we took advantage and this will hopefully give the whole squad a boost. Would really like to see us show improvement as the season comes to a close, both in terms of player performance but also tactically.
 
the arsenal fans are cracking me up. such nonsense, like they deserved to have won simply because they are arsenal and we're just wolves and your form is terrible and nuno is a garbage coach and you play anti-football and

robbed, cheats, divers, varverhampton, etc...

bros we didn't make your stupid ass gk run out of his box to maradona a ball in plain sight. no one made the skull basher trip our striker in front of goal. arsenal have NINE red cards since december, 3x more than the next closest teams. you can't shoot yourselves in the face then complain about losing to a team you handed the momentum to.
 
What was noticeable last night was how many of them grew in stature after the second goal - Moutinho and Adama especially. Because we were on the front foot they were playing forward passes, taking men on, attempting risky play. This is what we need to do more of, not pass sideways and backwards.

The slump has absolutely been all down to confidence, and hopefully now we can kick on. We have the players to really hurt teams in this division and kick on - they just need to believe it themselves.
 
Also a special mention for Vitinha who, for me, has to start next game over Podence. I'm aware we had the extra man but he played that 10 role exactly how it should be: give and go, pass and move into space, creates space for others, links the midfield and attack, and got back to muck in defensively too. Shame he didn't get the goal to round it off.

I can see what we're trying to do with Podence but I don't think it is working.
 
I can see what we're trying to do with Podence but I don't think it is working.

It looked like he could be the answer to that position pre-injury, but he's just not been the same player since he came back. Hopefully a bit more confidence will make all the difference.
 
It will be interesting to see if that has taken us out of our slump I've the next few games, there's no way of telling based on that 2nd half, playing against 9 men there was acres of space everywhere.
 
On reflection this morning

Arsenal we're better than us but didn't / couldn't score until we made an absolute howler defensively

Willian was in on goal and Luiz tried the "tangle of legs" to stop him. I don't buy it was an accident. No way he dived as would have had to have had eyes in the back of his head to pick the absolute perfect time to stumble, plus Luiz fell down too. The laws of the game say it's a red, intent doesn't come into it and he made no attempt to play the ball

Moutinho's goal was special, he is/was a quality player who can do this. The little bit of magic we've been missing.

Leno made a big error, unusual at best but it was the result of wolves pressure.

We then pragmatically saw the game out, not winning from that position is a much bigger risk than going for a 3rd and leaving ourselves open.

Am I drinking the koolaid again?
 
Also a special mention for Vitinha who, for me, has to start next game over Podence. I'm aware we had the extra man but he played that 10 role exactly how it should be: give and go, pass and move into space, creates space for others, links the midfield and attack, and got back to muck in defensively too. Shame he didn't get the goal to round it off.

I can see what we're trying to do with Podence but I don't think it is working.
Podence isnt really putting in enough workrate to be #10/ free role. He’s basically playing as a second striker. Needs to do more off the ball and drop into the midfield more as he’s not good enough on the ball to just be carried.

The flip side is when we play Vitinha he drops too deep as he’s not really a CAM. So we end up playing the flat midfield 3 and still leaves that void in the middle of the pitch as Neves drops to the base and the other midfielders play in the inside right/left channel.
 
Arsenal could have been 3 up - the goal they had disallowed was very marginally offside and Saka got in behind in the first minute and hit the post . We weren't restricting them we got a bit lucky which was much needed. We'd have lost 11 v 11 no doubt but we just needed a win by any means for both the points and hopefully to start to get some confidence back.
 
Arsenal could have been 3 up - the goal they had disallowed was very marginally offside and Saka got in behind in the first minute and hit the post .
As Wolves fans I don't think were the ones to be sympathetic to marginal offsides :) and how come Arsenals chances 'should have' been goals but Killmans header isn't viewed as such ?
 
Podence isnt really putting in enough workrate to be #10/ free role. He’s basically playing as a second striker. Needs to do more off the ball and drop into the midfield more as he’s not good enough on the ball to just be carried.

The flip side is when we play Vitinha he drops too deep as he’s not really a CAM. So we end up playing the flat midfield 3 and still leaves that void in the middle of the pitch as Neves drops to the base and the other midfielders play in the inside right/left channel.

Agree with you on Podence. I'd argue that him and Traore both need to improve their workrate when it comes to defensive duties - I know we're not really a team who press and close people down and never have been until the right moments, but that does mean we need to get how a back four operates spot on or we're going to be punished. We always seemed to defend better from the front with Raul who would drop into midfield to help out and be an extra body to press, but Podence and Traore don't do that and to some extent Neto doesn't either. Neto is brilliant at driving the ball and getting us out of trouble, but part of Kilman's problem last night was he needed a bit more protection.

I thought Vitinha did OK to be honest and was one of our best players, even if he isn't a CAM. He'd pass the ball and drive forward to keep the attack going and that's ultimately what you need. He should have scored, too.
 
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