Will Britain Survive?

[leedswolf]

Half English, half Italian, born in Guernsey

Definitely a donkey then.

 

[Lupo]

Definitely a donkey then.

Evidently

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

What’s a fake Irishman?

Tony Cascarino

 

[sycophantia]

Tony Cascarino

Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton, etc

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

My Grandad who I knew was Welsh and represented them but moved over to Wigan to play for them and married a local lass, making my Dad a pie eater.

I've got Scottish on my mom's side but she's a Geordie.

I grew up in Wolverhampton and feel very English, but I do hold a soft spot for Wales Rugby for obvious reasons and there is a conflict when we play each other.

I always supported all the 'home' nations although was off put a bit by some of my experiences in Scotland, given age I can see their point of view.

I don't feel in anyway European, I also have a fairly rational distrust of the French

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Andy Townsend, Ray Houghton, etc

That’s who. Now what.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

I'd say the US is ultimately class based, it's just that we've never grappled with the reasons why certain racial groups end up in "lower classes" more often than white folks.

Matter of semantics, probably.

You should know better then me, but I would say the US is one million percent race based. How are Americans defined? - 1) skin colour, 2) skin colour, 3) skin colour, 4) where your ancestors are from (inc do you speak Spanish?). You may be poor white or ultra-wealthy white, but you are still white.

Anyway, the thrust of the Atlantic article - which TT answered - has/will the UK cease to exist?

 

[Templeton Peck]

Always considered myself English rather than British. Very much in the Billy Bragg camp. Britain isn't a thing really whereas England is.

 

[Alan]

You should know better then me, but I would say the US is one million percent race based. How are Americans defined? - 1) skin colour, 2) skin colour, 3) skin colour, 4) where your ancestors are from (inc do you speak Spanish?). You may be poor white or ultra-wealthy white, but you are still white.

Yeah, you're not wrong, to be fair.

Race and class are inextricably linked in this country in a way that I don't know how we untangle.

 

[Paul]

Always considered myself English rather than British. Very much in the Billy Bragg camp. Britain isn't a thing really whereas England is.

I'm shocked

 

[Parkins left foot]

My Father was 50% Scot (born in Ross & Cromarty) though my Mother was a true cockney (i.e. born just off the Old Kent Rd within the sound of Bow Bells) so more English than anything else & having lived in the South East (now South West) for most of my life feel English.

As to the Country staying as one unit then: -

Scotland - if they are allowed another vote then expect it would go for independance depending on when it happens. Demography indicates that the last result will change as the younger part of the population appears keener. The financial & constitutional questions are very unclear though whatever any pro or anti camps will claim at that time.

Wales - Less likely to move away. Not as much support or clamour & even if there was would probably wait to see what happened with Scotland before risking it.

NI - difficult to call. A lot of entrenched views though times change & I could envisage a reunition at some time in the future (whether I will be here to see it is another matter)

 

[darlowolf64]

I see myself as English, Irish, European and British, probably in that order.
I was born in England but both of my parents (and all before them) were born in Ireland. 4 of my siblings were born in Ireland too but my parents moved permanently to England in the late 50's so here I am.
I have a real affection for Ireland and am passionately proud of my heritage but I was born here, have lived here all my life and consider myself English.

I follow Ireland sports teams from afar but when they play England, it's England that I want to win

Oh and Billy Bragg is right that everyone in England is English, Half English @Paul

 

[Throbber3]

Born in England
Adopted at 6weeks ( even my mother didnt like me!)- Birth parents heralded from Suffolk and Yorkshire. Family history , mothers side from Ireland. Fathers side Nottinghamshire/ Yorkshire
Raised in the East of England in a predominantly white community with nothing but English people pretty much and some second generation polish post ww2. First Black kid in our year at school was when I was 15 in 1979.

So I did not have a diverse upbringing. However I see myself as English/ Irish/ British. I have worked all over the UK and my experience (others may well differ) is as follows.

Scotland- Because of history-General dislike for anything English and very vocal about it , especially south of the border which I always found strange. In Scotland I have only ever been welcomed with open arms and through;ly enjoyed my time working and holidaying in Scotland.

Wales- Now this is a mixed bag. South is fine. Never had an issue or problem. However when I went to a pub in North wales (20 years ago mind) they stopped speaking English and started speaking welsh. Which didnt endear them to me. Mid wales I find, is like stepping back in time in both attitute and personality( try getting a phone signal driving through Dyfed -Powys for example). There was a dislike of the English but it was more humourous than the Scots.

Ireland/ Northern Ireland- Whilst it was bloody obvous I was English , it was not a discussion that was wise to have in the mid nineties to 2010. I never had an issue there but I also kept myself to meself.

European- The French hate the English. Its not even up for debate. I have travelled throughout France and never recieved better than a luke warm welcome. Germans that I have met are lovely and contrary to the stereotype can be very funny, although its often a dry or sarcastic wit, nonetheless its very funny. Spanish dont seem to give two fucks about anything! Friendly and helpful except during siesta time which still seems to observed with religous zealot like efficiency in some parts. Italians seem live life at 100 MPH and can find any subject worthy of debate or argument. Usually good natured but NEVER insult a mans wife/Girfriend/mother. Beautiful country. Danes are probably the most liberal people I have met. Their English speaking is incredible. Their prices for beer extortionate! Same with Icelanders who are a little more insular but dont count as they arent in Europe! Portuguese, I have only visited the tourist areas of the Algarve so its probably not a good enough cross section but when I was there twice it was friendly and welcoming.

What I do find strange is that in England there are often compliants from white male middle Englanders that "foreigners" stick to their own groups and make their own communities and congregate in one area and yet when English go and live aborad thats exaclty what they do. Set up little England in whatever country . See Spain, Portugal and Cyprus for some classic examples.

So , to independance. Scots are very canny and do know the value of a pound. The maths do not add up for them to be better off. taxes would have to rise by a huge amount just to deliver the same service , in the short to medium term post any independence. I just cannot see them voting for it. Brexit was different. Scottish independence would cost the scottish people more per head. I would say they would not vote for it if it came to the crunch.
Wales is a principlity and generally seem happy with that. I cant see that changing.

Probably best not go there with Ireland. I have no idea of the answer.

 

[Jabbawolf]

So , to independance. Scots are very canny and do know the value of a pound. The maths do not add up for them to be better off. taxes would have to rise by a huge amount just to deliver the same service , in the short to medium term post any independence. I just cannot see them voting for it. Brexit was different. Scottish independence would cost the scottish people more per head. I would say they would not vote for it if it came to the crunch.

This is such an English view of the Scottish psyche - as someone married into the clan, the desire for independence is more from the heart than the head - it is about a nation that feels it is grown up enough and capable enough to determine its own future.

They are sick of being told what to do by people down south who don’t understand them, and are very remote from them.

Independence is more about liberation from English governance and patronisation than being worried about the removal of the pocket money from the controlling parent.

 

[sycophantia]

Quite a lot of generalisations there Jasper, I have seen the Welsh switch from English to Welsh on occasion, but that was many years ago. Spent many years visiting Dolgellau for bike rallies and the folk there in the pubs were first class, very friendly.
As for everybody else you mention, never had any problems. French, German, Italian, Dutch, Belgian, Spanish, Swiss, Norwegian, Czech, in fact all of western Europe and the bits of Eastern Euripe I've been to are all very friendly on the while.
Russia was a bit different, when we were there, older people were very reserved, while youngsters were all friendly and outgoing.
I think a lot of it is how you approach people. Also we tend to avoid big towns and cities if possible abroad, countryside people are always more friendly than town folk.

 

[Tredman]

Quite a lot of generalisations there Jasper

Understatement of the year there... Have worked in France, and for the French, there might be their version of 'bantz' around the English but thats all it is mostly.

 

[Throbber3]

Hence why i highlighted In My Experience. Others are free to differ.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

This is such an English view of the Scottish psyche - as someone married into the clan, the desire for independence is more from the heart than the head - it is about a nation that feels it is grown up enough and capable enough to determine its own future.

They are sick of being told what to do by people down south who don’t understand them, and are very remote from them.

Independence is more about liberation from English governance and patronisation than being worried about the removal of the pocket money from the controlling parent.

Aye, independence to Scotland is what Brexit is to many English. Theres only so many financial arguments you can have when National pride has a place in the heart, like Brexit it is also a very divisive argument, but more entrenched along political and religious viewpoints.

It would probably work for them too, unlike the Welsh who are miserably associated with us until a time passes that coal and slate become major commodities again

For my part I would like Scotland to stay in the Union, it has been very fruitful for us all. I also love the Country and apart from misgivings over the whole sectarianism thing I think the people are genuinely welcoming. I do understand their desire to leave and having worked up there a fair bit I know what it means to those that I spent time with.

 

[sycophantia]

My eldest is married to a Scots lass, she and all her family are fiercely anti independence/pro union......although they are dismayed by brexit and anti Tory

 

[Flea]

Where do most english come from?
Going back nuff in time..did they come from france?
I´m sure there are some viking ancestry as well.
Just curoious..many nowadays swedes has ancestry from vallonia in Belgium I think.