Villa 0-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[northfield wolf]

Please dont shoot me, but i thought Dendonker was a lot better in the second half.

 

[Tony Towner]

Podence returning is the only way I see Nuno playing a 4231 though at moment, so while individually he is not the messiah his involvement may at least allow us to play a formation where we have looked far more fluid attacking wise.

it’s a shame we brought Gibbs-White back, I understood it at the time but he’s only here at the moment in case of another “injury” crisis, when he should be playing. I would like to see him more often tbh

I think we can conclude from that MGW's time at the club is coming to an end. He wasn't brought back to be given a chance, he was brought back to be a body. I understand it, football is brutal, but it's a shame.

 

[prawnking]

Podence returning is the only way I see Nuno playing a 4231 though at moment, so while individually he is not the messiah his involvement may at least allow us to play a formation where we have looked far more fluid attacking wise.

I know what you mean, but we said the same about Jonny and Boly (I appreciate the latter still isn't 100%) and it hasn't happened yet

 

[Tredman]

Please dont shoot me, but i thought Dendonker was a lot better in the second half.

That wouldn’t be hard given the low bar he set himself.

 

[PuntsWolf]

I think we can conclude from that MGW's time at the club is coming to an end. He wasn't brought back to be given a chance, he was brought back to be a body. I understand it, football is brutal, but it's a shame.

Club panicked when we were dropping closer to the bottom. Pure stupidity when they knew he wasn’t going to contribute and you already a midfielder here which they didn’t trust in a 2.

A decision which has likely cost the club anywhere between £1m - £10m.

 

[YoungWolf]

I know what you mean, but we said the same about Jonny and Boly (I appreciate the latter still isn't 100%) and it hasn't happened yet

We said what? I’ve been waiting for Podence and Boly to be back to be able to play 4231, I had no idea on how /when Jonny would come back

 

[YoungWolf]

Club panicked when we were dropping closer to the bottom. Pure stupidity when they knew he wasn’t going to contribute and you already a midfielder here which they didn’t trust in a 2.

A decision which has likely cost the club anywhere between £1m - £10m.

It just puts his situation back a season, annoyingly. Not sure how long he’s contracted for but luckily as he performed well for Swansea in that short spell he still have plenty of clubs interested. If he goes out again and is too good for the league we’d still be able to get good money for him if his future isn’t here

 

[prawnking]

We said what? I’ve been waiting for Podence and Boly to be back to be able to play 4231, I had no idea on how /when Jonny would come back

We've all said that a defence with Boly and Jonny in it would enable us to play a back 4 more convincingly.

Boly was part of the back 4 that lost to Albion and Pod has had a mixed season himself, I think it's what Nuno is doing with his available players as much as who is available.

I don't disagree that I'd like a 4231 with Jonny, Boly and Pod in it, I'm not as convinced that it's what Nuno wants

 

[YoungWolf]

We've all said that a defence with Boly and Jonny in it would enable us to play a back 4 more convincingly.

Boly was part of the back 4 that lost to Albion and Pod has had a mixed season himself, I think it's what Nuno is doing with his available players as much as who is available

I’m not sure you are understanding what I’m saying, which is what I’ve said ever since the two got injured. I didn’t expect us to play a 4231 until Boly AND Podence are back.

at the moment if we play a back four it means a Donck, Neves, Moutinho mid 3 which I definitely do not want to see

the last time Boly and Podence were fit we played it, even with Kilman as a left back (poor guy)

 

[prawnking]

at the moment if we play a back four it means a Donck, Neves, Moutinho mid 3 which I definitely do not want to see

Wouldn't it be a mid 2 with Neves + 1 other?

If he's that serious about trying 4 at the back I don't see why Semedo Coady Saiss Jonny would be so bad, or why MGW or Vitinha couldn't play the central role in the 3?

I appreciate we'd hopefully be using the summer window to sign more appropriate players, but we don't have to wait until we have full availability (which we might not have before the season end) to try this formation if he's that set on it?

 

[YoungWolf]

We tried Coady and Saiss though, it didn’t work. It’s not really outlandish to say it may be better with Boly in there

if Vitinha/Gibbs-white were in his direct thinking he would have played them more often even if we were playing a back 3 (he tried them against Southampton in the cup)

The squad does need addressing, its too bottom heavy (because we always played 3 centre backs).

As I say, I think once both are fit we will try to play 4231 which they definitely should be after the international break

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I think you are agreeing with me. There's no point fizzing the ball across the 6 yard line as we don't get players in there in that way. We did in the Champ with Bonatini Cav and Jota, but not really since. We either need IF's that look up and pick out the player who is available or sign a penalty box forward. Peak Traore with Raul can do that, but what we have now is incompatible. You use KDB an an example, but our midfield doesn't deliver balls into the box other than from set pieces, they'll move it inside or out to one of the IF's or WB's. It's another reason we are so one dimensional, since Raul's injury it's been give it to Neto and Traore and hope for the best

I'm not sure we're completely agreeing.

I don't think it's all one person's fault or the other, they have to work together, form an understanding so they can anticipate what one another are going to do. Ignore the fact that de Bruyne plays central midfield, it's irrelevant to this point, when he gets the ball laid back to him in wider areas you know what he's going to do 9 times out of 10, ditto Alexander-Arnold. That means the forwards can make their runs and time them well because they can assume with relative certainty what is likely to happen next.

Wolves don't have those patterns of play, those consistent traits to rely on, build quality attacks around and ultimately create chances from them. If the ball goes wide to Traore when is he going to play it in? There's no point heading straight for the box because it definitely is coming that soon but when do you make the move? The first time he runs at the back? Second? Third? What if he lays it back to the wingback? Do they pump it in first time like KDB or TAA? Fuck knows what they're doing with it!

If the inside forwards can always dribble into the box and get their heads up then it becomes a bit easier to resolve, then your onus is on the forward to find the space to be picked out. You can't rely on Traore or Neto for that though, it's not like they're consistently getting into those sort of situations for all their long drawn out attempts at beating a fullback, they still pop loads of hopeful balls into the box when they've run themselves into a corner.

As with many things Wolves at the moment, it looks like something that's given no prior consideration at all, the wide players get to decide whatever they fancy doing whenever they get it and the forward just has to make a fist of it as best he can. It needs some guidance from above, is the emphasis on trying to beat the ball and hit the box? Cut inside and look for the pull back? Drag the fullback out and lay back to the wingback for a cross? What's the actual plan? If you get that bit sorted then your forward has half a chance of knowing where to operate.

 

[prawnking]

We tried Coady and Saiss though, it didn’t work. It’s not really outlandish to say it may be better with Boly in there

if Vitinha/Gibbs-white were in his direct thinking he would have played them more often even if we were playing a back 3 (he tried them against Southampton in the cup)

The squad does need addressing, its too bottom heavy (because we always played 3 centre backs).

As I say, I think once both are fit we will try to play 4231 which they definitely should be after the international break

Of course I agree that Boly is preferable, and I'd also rather be playing Raul than WJ, but it seems you're suggesting Nuno is a bit precious and inflexible if he's only going to try something in a dead season when he has all the very best players available. Either that or he's not as sold on that formation as we are!

Pretty damning indictment on our squad too. Vitinha was our only midfield summer signing and Saiss is our third CB (and we usually play 3), I'm not suggesting we chuck Terry Taylor or Nigel in there

 

[YoungWolf]

Precious is a weird way to describe it, inflexible id agree with at this point.

right now with the tools he as he is just trying to make sure we get the points to avoid anything ridiculous happening I think. Without Boly I never expected him to go with Coady/Saiss together again, so he had to do what he did last season and whether we’ve had luck or not, it’s now one defeat in 7.

if we have a fully fit squad minus Raul after the international break and we still play 343 every game I’ll be disappointed

 

[PuntsWolf]

I'm not sure we're completely agreeing.

I don't think it's all one person's fault or the other, they have to work together, form an understanding so they can anticipate what one another are going to do. Ignore the fact that de Bruyne plays central midfield, it's irrelevant to this point, when he gets the ball laid back to him in wider areas you know what he's going to do 9 times out of 10, ditto Alexander-Arnold. That means the forwards can make their runs and time them well because they can assume with relative certainty what is likely to happen next.

Wolves don't have those patterns of play, those consistent traits to rely on, build quality attacks around and ultimately create chances from them. If the ball goes wide to Traore when is he going to play it in? There's no point heading straight for the box because it definitely is coming that soon but when do you make the move? The first time he runs at the back? Second? Third? What if he lays it back to the wingback? Do they pump it in first time like KDB or TAA? Fuck knows what they're doing with it!

If the inside forwards can always dribble into the box and get their heads up then it becomes a bit easier to resolve, then your onus is on the forward to find the space to be picked out. You can't rely on Traore or Neto for that though, it's not like they're consistently getting into those sort of situations for all their long drawn out attempts at beating a fullback, they still pop loads of hopeful balls into the box when they've run themselves into a corner.

As with many things Wolves at the moment, it looks like something that's given no prior consideration at all, the wide players get to decide whatever they fancy doing whenever they get it and the forward just has to make a fist of it as best he can. It needs some guidance from above, is the emphasis on trying to beat the ball and hit the box? Cut inside and look for the pull back? Drag the fullback out and lay back to the wingback for a cross? What's the actual plan? If you get that bit sorted then your forward has half a chance of knowing where to operate.

Numbers game as well. The best teams get 6 in and around the box. We’re lucky to have 2 and then one of those is normally Traore who doesn’t attack the ball.

Also hard to get the numbers in their when you’re pretty much playing deep / on the counter.

 

[Tony Towner]

Terry Taylor

Just because it triggers my ocd everytime you use him as an example. We sold him to Burton

 

[prawnking]

Precious is a weird way to describe it, inflexible id agree with at this point.

right now with the tools he as he is just trying to make sure we get the points to avoid anything ridiculous happening I think. Without Boly I never expected him to go with Coady/Saiss together again, so he had to do what he did last season and whether we’ve had luck or not, it’s now one defeat in 7.

if we have a fully fit squad minus Raul after the international break and we still play 343 every game I’ll be disappointed

I don't think we're gonna quite agree on this, and while I respect your insights I think there's a lot of conjecture from you regarding Nuno's intentions and why we're playing this way.

Anyone who even suggested relegation during our January run was straight up ridiculed on here, but now you're saying Nuno is still worried about it?

I think it's perfect doable to play that formation now if Nuno really wanted to, or are we saying he's a fairweather manager who can only do it when he has a full squad? How many players do we need to buy in the summer if he doesn't trust anyone beyond the first choice XI?

 

[prawnking]

Just because it triggers my ocd everytime you use him as an example. We sold him to Burton

Apologies mate, I thought he was no longer with us but was too lazy to check

Shame on me, I'll choose another young lad to make that kind of point in future

 

[sycophantia]

There was one point last night ( maybe more) fairly early on, we had 4 or 5 players in or around the box, had some good possession (Neto I think) and the ball just came back to Coady. ..nearly turned it off there and then.

 

[Tony Towner]

Apologies mate, I thought he was no longer with us but was too lazy to check

Shame on me, I'll choose another young lad to make that kind of point in future

Have Taylor Perry, it sounds similar