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Ukraine

We have banned Russian aircraft from British airspace. I`m sure if Putin didn`t have his mind on other things to notice this he would send a plane or two over just to thumb his nose at us.
 
The whole situation is horrible. I’ve found myself actively avoiding social media so I don’t read too much about it as it just makes me so sad and angry.
 
Have to admit, I didn't foresee an outcome in which the oligarch's turn against Putin. That would be something.
 
Alan said:
Have to admit, I didn't foresee an outcome in which the oligarch's turn against Putin. That would be something.
Click to expand...
They haven't and won't until we freeze their assets, cancel the visa's for them and their kids and get them to take official UK citizenship, denouncing Russia in the process.

The US cancelling the use of any Russian using the Fed wire should have a dramatic effect, we should do the same and so should the EU. That would cancel the ability of Russia to do any trade with anybody, particularly with China who use both Euros and dollars in trade with Russia. For some reason Germany and Belgium are holding this up.

We're trying to persuade a man who doesn't want to listen and doesn't care what others think.

The only resolution to this is the removal of Putin.
 
Germany are very dependent on Russian gas.
 
Not understanding, or simply denying through ignorance or stupidity, the impact of NATO's eastward expansion on the Russian mentality, in particular Putin, is asinine. NATO is not responsible for this conflict, Putin is of course, but lets be absolutely clear, the expansion of NATO eastwards has long been a source of irritation for Putin and is for sure an excuse that Putin has used to justify Russian imperialist expansion into Ukraine.

Don't believe me? This is from a month ago.

www.cfr.org

Why NATO Has Become a Flash Point With Russia in Ukraine

Russian leaders have watched with mounting resentment as the transatlantic alliance has nearly doubled its membership since the end of the Cold War. President Vladimir Putin has drawn a red line in U…
www.cfr.org www.cfr.org
 
This from the Guardian from a month ago too.


The reality is that the west took a calculated gamble in expanding Nato in the 1990s. There was no suggestion of imitating Finland’s careful and pragmatic neutrality towards its Baltic neighbours that lie in Russia’s sphere of influence. Nato had post-Soviet Russia on the floor and simply could not resist the opportunity of kicking the country when it was already down.

The way Nato treated Russia almost guaranteed there would be a chauvinist reflex. Moscow’s initial feelers from Boris Yeltsin that it might associate with Nato were rebuffed. Mooted associations with the EU were ridiculed. Everything was done to rub Russia’s nose in its shame. Putin and his present antics were the predictable result.


www.theguardian.com

A measure of autonomy in eastern Ukraine is the only way out of this crisis | Simon Jenkins

Nato’s treatment of Russia almost guaranteed a chauvinistic reflex. The way forward is to implement the Minsk settlement, says the Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
Dire Wolf said:
Not understanding, or simply denying through ignorance or stupidity, the impact of NATO's eastward expansion on the Russian mentality, in particular Putin, is asinine. NATO is not responsible for this conflict, Putin is of course, but lets be absolutely clear, the expansion of NATO eastwards has long been a source of irritation for Putin and is for sure an excuse that Putin has used to justify Russian imperialist expansion into Ukraine.

Don't believe me? This is from a month ago.

www.cfr.org

Why NATO Has Become a Flash Point With Russia in Ukraine

Russian leaders have watched with mounting resentment as the transatlantic alliance has nearly doubled its membership since the end of the Cold War. President Vladimir Putin has drawn a red line in U…
www.cfr.org www.cfr.org
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Apologist bullshit.
 
WolfMan said:
This from the Guardian from a month ago too.


The reality is that the west took a calculated gamble in expanding Nato in the 1990s. There was no suggestion of imitating Finland’s careful and pragmatic neutrality towards its Baltic neighbours that lie in Russia’s sphere of influence. Nato had post-Soviet Russia on the floor and simply could not resist the opportunity of kicking the country when it was already down.

The way Nato treated Russia almost guaranteed there would be a chauvinist reflex. Moscow’s initial feelers from Boris Yeltsin that it might associate with Nato were rebuffed. Mooted associations with the EU were ridiculed. Everything was done to rub Russia’s nose in its shame. Putin and his present antics were the predictable result.


www.theguardian.com

A measure of autonomy in eastern Ukraine is the only way out of this crisis | Simon Jenkins

Nato’s treatment of Russia almost guaranteed a chauvinistic reflex. The way forward is to implement the Minsk settlement, says the Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Apologist bullshit from Jenkins too.

Up until a month ago this cunt was still saying there was no threat to Europe.
 
Johnny75 said:
Apologist bullshit.
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Well, when it comes to bullshit you definitely know what you're talking about.

I mean, the sheer arrogance to think you know better than a world renowned think tank and one of the most respected UK journalists... typical of you, though really. You seem to think you're the font of all knowledge. You're such an arrogant piece of crap.
 
Johnny75 said:
Apologist bullshit from Jenkins too.

Up until a month ago this cunt was still saying there was no threat to Europe.
Click to expand...
I don't think it is apologist bullshit. I'm not trying to excuse what Putin has done, it's terrible and he shouldn't have done it.

But trying to understand how one thing leads to another is important if we are to learn how best to avoid similar things happening again. I do think the West's behaviour towards Russia since the Cold War ended has made the situation in Ukraine more likely, not less. I can hold that opinion whilst also condemning what Putin has done.

The way the allies treated Germany after WW1 directly contributed to the economic conditions that made someone like Adolf Hitler possible. There was an acknowledgement of this at the time, which meant the same mistakes weren't repeated after WW2. The people who understood this weren't apologists for Adolph Hitler.
 
Dire Wolf said:
Well, when it comes to bullshit you definitely know what you're talking about.

I mean, the sheer arrogance to think you know better than a world renowned think tank and one of the most respected UK journalists... typical of you, though really. You seem to think you're the font of all knowledge. You're such an arrogant piece of crap.
Click to expand...

What a lovely person you are.
 
WolfMan said:
I don't think it is apologist bullshit. I'm not trying to excuse what Putin has done, it's terrible and he shouldn't have done it.

But trying to understand how one thing leads to another is important if we are to learn how best to avoid similar things happening again. I do think the West's behaviour towards Russia since the Cold War ended has made the situation in Ukraine more likely, not less. I can hold that opinion whilst also condemning what Putin has done.

The way the allies treated Germany after WW1 directly contributed to the economic conditions that made someone like Adolf Hitler possible. There was an acknowledgement of this at the time, which meant the same mistakes weren't repeated after WW2. The people who understood this weren't apologists for Adolph Hitler.
Click to expand...
Absolutely it's apologist bullshit from Jenkins. He's saying NATO forced Putin into Ukraine.

This just isn't true. The big reason the Baltic States wanted to be in NATO was because they feared Russian reprisal in the future. Now they're in a strong defensive bloc they have safety in numbers.

Trump was impeached for withdrawing support from Ukraine and was derisory to NATO, even considering withdrawal. We now know he's Putin's puppet (to the tune of $100m) and that Putin is using people like him, Corbyn, Farage, Bolsonaro and the idiot in Hungary to divide Europe to make his conquest easier.

People are getting sucked into his propaganda machine.
 
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