Trump

[Alan]

Genuinely not shitting on your position Al, or not meaning to anyway.

Political viewpoints are meant to be investigated and challenged, especially by those who share some of them, otherwise you get cosy bullshit that lets in people like Trump.

I've watched socialism fail my whole life while the world goes more and more to shit, so when I hear the same notes being played again I have to look at and critique it closely. I'm not sure I believe it has the answers anymore, but have to cling to some part of it or I'm politically homeless haha

It’s all good, I let my emotions get the best of me. The current political climate over here has me on edge in some unsavory ways.

You’ve given me some serious points to consider, and whatever else, I appreciate that. You can’t forge a sword without first reckoning with the strength of the steel, after all.

 

[prawnking]

I'm 43, we haven't had genuine Socialism in this country in that time and it's never been a thing in the US. It's capitalism that has failed us surely!?

If electorates are rejecting socialist options, or no viable ones are available that's not a success, is it? Or an endorsement of a vital political groundswell? That's what I meant.

In my lifetime (I'm slightly older than you) I've seen Thatcherism run riot, followed by a false dawn of New Labour, and the ultimate fall of Corbynism to Labour factionalism, press attacks and some ropey anti-Semitic stuff.

Dismantling capitalism is a major revolutionary task, and at the moment it's the right who are making all the moves in terms of revolution and dismantling (in the States, at least)

 

[Walshes Wolves]

I'm 43, we haven't had genuine Socialism in this country in that time and it's never been a thing in the US. It's capitalism that has failed us surely!?

They are tinkering with capitalism now. They call it globalisation, or stakeholder capitalism and they pretend that they care, which gets to me more than an authentic capitalism, which I can't stand either.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Sorry I misunderstood PK.

You meant in terms of being elected, well yes, then I agree, in that way it's definitely failed.

I'm not sure that people are shifting right because they actually believe in those ideas, more that they are being fooled into believing aspects such as immigration are negatively effecting them far more than they are.

The right are much better at that than the left, it's a lot easier to make people angry than make people think about others.

 

[prawnking]

It’s all good, I let my emotions get the best of me. The current political climate over here has me on edge in some unsavory ways.

You’ve given me some serious points to consider, and whatever else, I appreciate that. You can’t forge a sword without first reckoning with the strength of the steel, after all.

Don't want to come across as too abrasive (which I know I often do with you and EP especially), or that I have all the answers (I probably don't have many), thanks for taking directness with good grace xx

 

[Alan]

I'm 43, we haven't had genuine Socialism in this country in that time and it's never been a thing in the US. It's capitalism that has failed us surely!?

What’s legitimately fascinating and infuriating to me is how badly lost the real story of World War II in America is.

For those years, which damn near everyone (or at least Americans) agrees that we pulled ourselves out of the Great Depression and propelled the US into being one of the “great” world powers for the coming half century or so. What people forget, or intentionally leave out, is that the US explicitly became a command economy during the war. Private factories were refitted for war materials, civilian goods were severely rationed nationwide, the draft was implemented, the remaining non-drafted civilians were essentially drafted themselves, just into factories rather than bunkers. The federal government commanded, and the whole of society obeyed. It was a time as far removed from Capitalism as America has ever been, and it expanded the power and wealth of the country exponentially.

Of course, that pill is easier to swallow when the enemy doesn’t require any hyperbole to propagandize their, er, evil-ness.

 

[Alan]

Don't want to come across as too abrasive (which I know I often do with you and EP especially), or that I have all the answers (I probably don't have many), thanks for taking directness with good grace xx

To you as well, mate. Passions run high and all that.

 

[Alan]

Dismantling capitalism is a major revolutionary task, and at the moment it's the right who are making all the moves in terms of revolution and dismantling (in the States, at least)

I’ve had this thought, too. As I’ve asserted before, Trump’s appeal is/was as much about rejecting the status quo as anything else, at least IMV. He’s making the sorts of drastic changes I would have wanted to see from Bernie, just in the exact opposite direction. That’s been uncomfortable for me to reckon with.

The great failure of American Leftism has been allowing the seeds sown by the Tea Party to grow into a choking populist kudzu, with no recognition that it would create an outcome like we are seeing now.

 

[AndyWolves]

What’s legitimately fascinating and infuriating to me is how badly lost the real story of World War II in America is.

For those years, which damn near everyone (or at least Americans) agrees that we pulled ourselves out of the Great Depression and propelled the US into being one of the “great” world powers for the coming half century or so. What people forget, or intentionally leave out, is that the US explicitly became a command economy during the war. Private factories were refitted for war materials, civilian goods were severely rationed nationwide, the draft was implemented, the remaining non-drafted civilians were essentially drafted themselves, just into factories rather than bunkers. The federal government commanded, and the whole of society obeyed. It was a time as far removed from Capitalism as America has ever been, and it expanded the power and wealth of the country exponentially.

Of course, that pill is easier to swallow when the enemy doesn’t require any hyperbole to propagandize their, er, evil-ness.

Real wage growth stopped at the end of the 70's in the US. Post WW2 until 1979 the average US worker enjoyed an increase, pretty much year-on-year, of purchasing power. But the people who own assets have seen their wealth grow much faster than inflation, leading to a wider split between asset owners (stocks, housing etc) and people who don't own assets. This is compounded by inheritance meaning more than ever your quality of life is determined by who your parents are rather than anything you do.

If Trump crashes the economy enough, we may just see a reduction in asset prices enough for regular people to own more, but instead I think it's far more likely for the wealthy to see this is an opportunity to hoover up even more assets.

 

[leedswolf]