The Things That I Really Really DISLIKE Thread.

[jd1981]

Any sport that is intrinsically linked to gambling will always get a big no from me.
If you banned gambling horse racing would collapse as a sport.
Cheltenham this week we’ve lost 3 horses and how many have gambled irresponsibly too? Putting their own welfare and family at risk of hardship.
Yes you can gamble on any sport, however ban gambling from say football and the sport continues as gambling isn’t the main catch.

 

[leedswolf]

Any sport that is intrinsically linked to gambling will always get a big no from me.
If you banned gambling horse racing would collapse as a sport.
Cheltenham this week we’ve lost 3 horses and how many have gambled irresponsibly too? Putting their own welfare and family at risk of hardship.
Yes you can gamble on any sport, however ban gambling from say football and the sport continues as gambling isn’t the main catch.

The UAE has horse racing without 'traditional' gambling. I appreciate that the likes of the World Cup (I was at the inaugral meeting in Dubai in 96 which Cigar won) although not gambled on in the UAE is gambled on around the world.

I don't gamble myself (not since 1983), but if gambling was made illegal, punters would be offered criminally backed betting opportunities.

 

[slink]

I love horse racing so i will always counter the argument that it should be banned. I understand people’s worries with gambling but if we ban everything that could possibly cause harm etc… then alcohol would probably be top of that list and i’ve usually found those that feel that way about gambling love having a drink. Also we have to still give people the right to do things responsibly or we may as-well take all choice away.

In terms of the horses, they are better looked after now than they have ever been and banning horse racing is basically killing off the thoroughbred which for me is much worse. Unfortunately horses will die during racing (around 0.2%) which is hard to accept but as above the only way to stop it completely would lead to the breed ending. As in all walks of life there are bad people involved too and people will make bad decisions like the jockey at Fakenham yesterday but again those minority incidents shouldn’t lead the narrative behind the sport but they do as with everything else negative does.

 

[Tony Towner]

In terms of the horses, they are better looked after now than they have ever been and banning horse racing is basically killing off the thoroughbred which for me is much worse.

That's a similar argument that's been given against vegetarianism for decades. If they aren't bred for that purpose they aren't bred at all. Personally I think it's weak counter. I do however acknowledge if something were to happen, and we are decades off it, if it all, it would need to be in a phased way to avoid mass euthanasia.

My objections are purely around welfare. I believe in personal responsibility where gambling and drinking are concerned. The vulnerable should be protected as best as possible, but that shouldn't be to the dertiment of others who can enjoy them without the negatives.

 

[Sniffer]

If national hunt racing was banned tomorrow, in ten years time we wouldn’t be celebrating the horses saved by not participating in the sport but there would be 10s of thousands of horses not even born due to the sport not being allowed.
It’s a tragedy each time it happens though.
How many dog owners go out each day and don’t arrive home with their dogs due to accidents occurring. I’d say it’s a substantial amount more than in racing and like the horses I’m sure they’d have been treated like part of family at home.

 

[Tredman]

I’m not so sure on that analogy - dogs which do not arrive home have not been exercised to death by their walker.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

If national hunt racing was banned tomorrow, in ten years time we wouldn’t be celebrating the horses saved by not participating in the sport but there would be 10s of thousands of horses not even born due to the sport not being allowed.

Don't agree with that logic.

How many animals would not be born if we didn't eat them...

 

[slink]

That's a similar argument that's been given against vegetarianism for decades. If they aren't bred for that purpose they aren't bred at all. Personally I think it's weak counter. I do however acknowledge if something were to happen, and we are decades off it, if it all, it would need to be in a phased way to avoid mass euthanasia.

My objections are purely around welfare. I believe in personal responsibility where gambling and drinking are concerned. The vulnerable should be protected as best as possible, but that shouldn't be to the dertiment of others who can enjoy them without the negatives.

It would be a weak argument if racing was a relatively new sport but it’s 100’s of years old and so the thoroughbred exists. Whatever way you look at it, removing their existence would be much worse than the situation is right now. Regulations put in place as they are now means racing is safer and if you go to racing yards you will see how the majority of horses are looked after which is better than most people and animals. As i said above there will always be incidents because humans are involved but making sure thoroughbreds are looked after to the best of a humans ability is a much better outcome and easier to do than kill the breed entirely.

 

[Tony Towner]

It would be a weak argument if racing was a relatively new sport but it’s 100’s of years old and so the thoroughbred exists. Whatever way you look at it, removing their existence would be much worse than the situation is right now. Regulations put in place as they are now means racing is safer and if you go to racing yards you will see how the majority of horses are looked after which is better than most people and animals. As i said above there will always be incidents because humans are involved but making sure thoroughbreds are looked after to the best of a humans ability is a much better outcome and easier to do than kill the breed entirely.

So we've been doing if for 100s of years so we should just continue? Same could have been said for cock fighting, bear baiting, fox hunting or various other pursuits that have been subsequently banned.

I don't doubt that the vast majority of horses are very well treated off the course, although the Gordon Elliott video from a few years back is one example of that not being the case. I watched the closing stages of the Gold Cup afterwards yesterday, the last time Envoi Allen is shown in the race is 2 out still being pushed out with no chance of gaining a place. That's not welfare being at the forefront - no way of knowing if he'd have still collapsed if he was pulled up when he should have done, but surely there's less of a chance?

However you dress that up though you are sending them out to do something where there is a real chance that they won't come back and at Cheltenham in Festival week that is more than 0.2%, it was more like 0.7% this week, with 4 now reported dead. For me that's barbaric and a bloodsport.

 

[Tony Towner]

How many dog owners go out each day and don’t arrive home with their dogs due to accidents occurring. I’d say it’s a substantial amount more than in racing and like the horses I’m sure they’d have been treated like part of family at home.

You are on a walk with your dog and come across a massive park that has 560 dogs in it. You then see a sign that says a random 4 of those dogs in there will die today. Are you taking your dog in or walking by? That's your dog analogy.

 

[slink]

So we've been doing if for 100s of years so we should just continue? Same could have been said for cock fighting, bear baiting, fox hunting or various other pursuits that have been subsequently banned.

I don't doubt that the vast majority of horses are very well treated off the course, although the Gordon Elliott video from a few years back is one example of that not being the case. I watched the closing stages of the Gold Cup afterwards yesterday, the last time Envoi Allen is shown in the race is 2 out still being pushed out with no chance of gaining a place. That's not welfare being at the forefront - no way of knowing if he'd have still collapsed if he was pulled up when he should have done, but surely there's less of a chance?

However you dress that up though you are sending them out to do something where there is a real chance that they won't come back and at Cheltenham in Festival week that is more than 0.2%, it was more like 0.7% this week, with 4 now reported dead. For me that's barbaric and a bloodsport.

There’s a hell of a difference between horse racing and those banned sports where the aim was to hurt or kill the animals and none of them being banned have killed off an entire breed so there’s a massive difference. My point was because of how long horse racing has been around there’s a substantial amount of thoroughbred’s and it’s not that easy to just stop it if that’s what you wanted.

I wasn’t onboard Envoi Allen so i can’t say but i doubt the jockey got the feeling that he was going to have a heart attack on the way back and had he got the feeling something was wrong i hope he would have pulled him up.

Of course there’s a risk when you send them out but for me like i said i would rather have that slight risk and make sure the welfare of the horses when are they aren’t racing is top notch rather than kill the thoroughbred off. It’s definitely something I always think about though as a big fan of the sport and totally understand why people can’t get past that but i’m still yet to hear a proper reasoned solution.

 

[Alan]

I think we all know the answer here.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

I do not usually argue my case at all well and TT puts forward a much more comprehensive, coherent, and eloquent argument than I ever could.
I have been strongly against all forms of animal racing for almost 50 years. This is a matter of both welfare and animal rights. Most horses (in the UK) may be treated better now than in the past but ultimately they are just commodities - tools from which to make money. Selectively bred, dog food (allegedly) if they fail to make the grade, and the most consistent argument for a continuation seems to be that they would not be born were it not for racing. No disrespect to Slink, but that argument seems irrelevant to me.
Charging around, risking life and limb with a big weight on their back, just for the pleasure of a few humans, I can't find any moral justification for it.

 

[catfishwolf]

Any sport that is intrinsically linked to gambling will always get a big no from me.
If you banned gambling horse racing would collapse as a sport.
Cheltenham this week we’ve lost 3 horses and how many have gambled irresponsibly too? Putting their own welfare and family at risk of hardship.
Yes you can gamble on any sport, however ban gambling from say football and the sport continues as gambling isn’t the main catch.

It’s going to be an even bigger issue in the future, I think. So many of the kids in our 6th form, and other ones that I know of, gamble on apps as easily as they use social media. Even those under 18, I dont know how they get accounts set up.

Its quite an affluent area I work in, most kids aren’t short of money and they say “it’s only a couple of quid” but it’s habit forming and will be much tougher for them when they have other expenses in the future.

We’ve got someone coming in to assembly tomorrow to speak about gambling issues, but I think much more needs to be done. An outright ban would create other issues, but getting rid of the apps and only being able to bet in person would be great, IMO.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Gambling is a big problem here. There is a TAB in pretty much every pub, and even usually a machine where you can bet on fake computer-generated horse and trotting races. I shit you not.

Plus EVERY pub has keno, which as far as I can tell seems to be bingo. Loads of people think they have "systems" to beat keno. These systems seem to result in bigger losses, but the comment of "I only needed one number and the win was huge, so the system works" is common. It does, but not for you, mate.

The big problem is pokies though. I watch people putting hundreds of dollars into those infernal things. My nephew works in a bar with an enormous pokie room and one punter won a $32,000 jackpot about three weeks ago. They have to give the winner a cheque in that situation as carrying it in cash would be fairly insecure for the establishment. The bloke cashed it the next day, and had put the lot back in within a week.

 

[Wolf Hunting]

I have a small contribution to make towards the betting on animals conversation.
It's not anecdotal, it's a real experience story.
Some of you may remember that in my spare time I used to rescue dogs.
All sorts of breeds, usually unwanted animals and dogs for whatever reason (right or wrong) surrendered to the dog pounds around the Irish countryside. There were lots of breeds but predominantly greyhounds. Especially greyhounds that were just past their best and had stopped winning - winning meaning making money for their owners.
Now, a majority of owners were responsible and either looked after these dogs themselves or surrendered them through channels to responsible greyhound centres who either found people to look after them, or fostered them out.
But some didn't do that.... and in a forlorn attempt to make owners responsible for their dogs, Irish Greyhound Racing Authority got all owners to register their dogs. This was done by tatooing the dogs number into their ears and this number went into a ledger when the owner registered it. Nice try, but when the dog stopped winning the poor dogs ears were cut off and the dog put into a pound or usually chained up to the pound gates late at night.
I can't tell you how many greyhounds I took to Sweden to be rehomed as pets.
(Sweden loves dogs from Ireland because Ireland is rabies free so the dogs from here are clean)
The dogs would checked over by a vet, neutered or spayed, a microchip fitted, a one way passport was issued, then a bit of a journey was coordinated and I would meet up at Dublin airport and take 5 or 6 dogs on a plane to Stockholm (Direct or via Riga depending on the flights) where they would be met by their new families and they'd live a happy life.
With little or no ears.

 

[Dennisons Wrong Foot]

I have a small contribution to make towards the betting on animals conversation.
It's not anecdotal, it's a real experience story.
Some of you may remember that in my spare time I used to rescue dogs.
All sorts of breeds, usually unwanted animals and dogs for whatever reason (right or wrong) surrendered to the dog pounds around the Irish countryside. There were lots of breeds but predominantly greyhounds. Especially greyhounds that were just past their best and had stopped winning - winning meaning making money for their owners.
Now, a majority of owners were responsible and either looked after these dogs themselves or surrendered them through channels to responsible greyhound centres who either found people to look after them, or fostered them out.
But some didn't do that.... and in a forlorn attempt to make owners responsible for their dogs, Irish Greyhound Racing Authority got all owners to register their dogs. This was done by tatooing the dogs number into their ears and this number went into a ledger when the owner registered it. Nice try, but when the dog stopped winning the poor dogs ears were cut off and the dog put into a pound or usually chained up to the pound gates late at night.
I can't tell you how many greyhounds I took to Sweden to be rehomed as pets.
(Sweden loves dogs from Ireland because Ireland is rabies free so the dogs from here are clean)
The dogs would checked over by a vet, neutered or spayed, a microchip fitted, a one way passport was issued, then a bit of a journey was coordinated and I would meet up at Dublin airport and take 5 or 6 dogs on a plane to Stockholm (Direct or via Riga depending on the flights) where they would be met by their new families and they'd live a happy life.
With little or no ears.

It's all about money. "Owners" and gamblers are only interested in how much they can make off an animal. Rarely about the animal itself.

 

[Alan]

I believe it's generally accepted in equestrian circles that part of the reason that jockeys see horses as partners rather than vehicles is psychological backlash against the total utilitarianism of the owners.

 

[Derby Wolf]

I've long since been against police using horses too, they're a flight animal so putting them in noisy, frightening public order situations is cruel on the animal whether they're "trained" or not. I'm sure their welfare is top notch too.

The start of the race is to essentially elicit that flight response to get them moving. Covering their eyes before the start of a race is merely to help make sure that response is on the riders terms.

The welfare isn't animal centred, it's economic centred. Win the big one(s) and get them out on stud duties to make more money. Racehorse "careers" are shorter than 20 years ago because the breeding programmes are more lucrative.