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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

tredman said:
That’s a tad harsh, a lot of the EU’s commercial success is due to the UK led single market. Similarly the European Courts have been led by UK experts.

The UK has a lot to answer for, but to say they have harmed the EU alone is not correct - the EU would be a lot less successful without UK influence. While an EU superstate may be an aim for some, its not so for the majority and expecting that to be the outcome while not addressing economic disparities won’t be a success.
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Not economically, but politically. And it wasn't only the UK but it was a sure deadweight.
 
jdrodrigues said:
Not economically, but politically. And it wasn't only the UK but it was a sure deadweight.
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This just isn't true Joel. There were plenty of decisions the UK had a hand in that were very positive politically and the UK did balance out the federalists when not everybody wants that.
 
Johnny75 said:
This just isn't true Joel. There were plenty of decisions the UK had a hand in that were very positive politically and the UK did balance out the federalists when not everybody wants that.
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That's fair, I'm probably hyperboling out here, but there was a tendency with cherry picking and putting some ice on advances. Although the unnamed European Constitution was blocked by France before it could get anywhere else.

I do apologize though, I understand that I'm very pro EU and can be a bit over zealous.
 
I'm not sure there is the desire among some of the original EU members such as Italy, Germany and France to have the European super state you envision Joel. I do understand why, finances aside, you'd want us off though.
 
Tony Towner said:
I'm not sure there is the desire among some of the original EU members such as Italy, Germany and France to have the European super state you envision Joel. I do understand why, finances aside, we were off though.
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There was some desire with the current governments, but they're reaching their end and nothing could be done. We'll see in the future. But whatever happens, all progress will be very slow, with steps forward and then backwards and forward again. I have no doubt that it will walk towards a federation, but it will take decades. Or it might just fail. Who knows.

Next up will be unification of some tax rules, I'd wager, which have started somewhat.
 
darlowolf64 said:
My god, Papper... You truly are the master of the wind up!

I've spent the last half hour catching up with this thread and I've not seen 1 accurate argument by you on any point but you keep on dangling the rod and getting a nibble :fished:

Chapeau Sir, chapeau :tiphat:
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The only people who get wound up by me are narcissists and egocentrics. I suspect any thinking outside of the box discludes you from the gang so I understand some of the acidic comments aimed at me.
 
jdrodrigues said:
You do know that the UK was / is one of the biggest issues to the development of the EU, right? The UK has been creating road blocks for decades, always cherry picking its way between treaties and deal. That is no way to behave in a Union such as this. And that is the reason a lot of Europeans are glad that the UK is going off.

However, with this whole farse, the EU has lost a lot of time and a window of opportunity to further develop is now closing. Macron and Merkel were huge supporters of the EU and were all in for increasing the strength of the union and furthering its tendrils into another aspects as labour, tax. Both leaders' tenure is at an end. So, ironically, by creating a situation of leaving the EU, the UK road blocked the EU again.
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I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you but there has always been a heavy eurosceptic leverage in this country. I think a fantastic relationship can be built but as far as us being a rule taker I am not sure. I am still not convinced it isn't a corporate protectionist racket and am wary of Johnson and especially people like Farage turning us over to another protectionist corporate racket. I feel the buck stopping at Westminster is the only way way forward (short term)
 
What the U.K. is in desperate need of is some open honest socialism. An end to low taxes for the rich, a fairer tax system, a fairer welfare system or even ubi. It needs a centre left government to steer us into the next chapter post eu and invest in the infrastructure of the U.K. . It needs to work to build trust with farmers to allow them to produce food for the U.K. rather than set aside for handouts and them see it’s benefits. Above all it needs to have a leader who understands that this is an inclusive country and will not tolerate crime racism or terrorism or far right morons. It will invest appropriately in its services and support its forces and nato. The leader will be understood and respected without spouting rhetoric or rabble rousing.

When that happens I will vote for them.
 
Papper said:
I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you but there has always been a heavy eurosceptic leverage in this country. I think a fantastic relationship can be built but as far as us being a rule taker I am not sure. I am still not convinced it isn't a corporate protectionist racket and am wary of Johnson and especially people like Farage turning us over to another protectionist corporate racket. I feel the buck stopping at Westminster is the only way way forward (short term)
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and so what.. the earth hasn't become flatter because Freddie Flintoff keeps declaring himself a flatearther. it's up to each of us whether we objectively base our views on evidence and logic or instead on what we think suits our biases or on the latest conspiracy theory posted on facebook.

the fewer checks you have in any system the more likely you create the sort of environment that leads to what you seem to be describing, however unclearly. so outside EU rule transparency the likes of chris grayling would be free to give his cronies their contracts and defend it as in the national interest regardless of whether that was the case or not. I don't say that as a defender of the EU, it's just reality.
 
This is a man who has flown around the world, multiple times.

Still, "balance" and all that.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
This is a man who has flown around the world, multiple times.

Still, "balance" and all that.
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to think an Ancient Greek pretty much worked out the circumference of the earth by measuring shadows in different places at the same time of day and by using brain power and maths. today, Freddie can fly round the earth and have access to all Nasa’s photos and today’s sophisticated tools and still reckon it could be flat. We’ve really f.ucking regressed. what a time to be alive! shame THM isn’t around to blame the EU for making us all thick.
 
Back to the election - don't really have a say round here if I vote other than Tory

Theyv'e held the seat for all but 4 of the last 100 yrs - decent constituency local MP who voted for all of May's & Boris's deals. He will be a shoe in with well over 50% of the vote.
 
nimrod said:
to think an Ancient Greek pretty much worked out the circumference of the earth by measuring shadows in different places at the same time of day and by using brain power and maths. today, Freddie can fly round the earth and have access to all Nasa’s photos and today’s sophisticated tools and still reckon it could be flat. We’ve really f.ucking regressed. what a time to be alive! shame THM isn’t around to blame the EU for making us all thick.[/QUOTE

From what I understand, he said it as a prank.
But it went straight over Brian Cocks head.
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i'm not surprised he'd want to pass off that view as a joke, though if he's simply changed his mind, who would blame him
 
Nigel Farage has called on Boris Johnson to ditch his Brexit deal and "build a Leave alliance".

At the launch of the Brexit Party's election campaign, the leader said bringing the parties together was "the only way" forward.

But he warned Mr Johnson that if he turned down his offer, the party would field candidates in "every single seat" in England, Scotland and Wales.
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..
 
"Boris Johnson has rejected the suggestion from Nigel Farage and Donald Trump that he should work with the Brexit Party during the election."


Deal will be announced next week then
 
Looks like Aaron Banks has had his twitter hacked. That's a shame. Fingers crossed he just happens to have some incriminating DM's...
 
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