Pre-Season Fixture thread (22/23)

[Deutsch Wolf]

Seasons don't exist in isolation though. We won 3 of our last 14, Newcastle won 12 of their last 18, they ended up finishing not far behind us, we have both signed a highly rated centre half each for the first team...who do you think goes into the season with higher hopes? Who finished above us last season that we can realistically hope to overtake, based on the current state of affairs? You don't just press reset in May and it's as if nothing that happened in the last 9-10 months exists any more.

It's historically a far better indicator to look at the previous actual season's results and performances rather than anything in pre-season.

My biggest hope is that Lage knows (he must do) that this is the biggest job he's ever likely to get. He should also be under a fair bit of pressure from above (strangely he still seems to get a fairly easy ride from a majority of fans, but we'll see how long that lasts). So it's on him to change the emphasis on how we play and of course not have an even vaguely similar kind of run of results, or he's back to a backroom role or taking over some mid-range Portuguese team. If he recognises the need for urgent change (whether that's with the existing players or whatever) then that's our biggest hope. You can't blame people for having serious doubts though. All the evidence was there in abundance for months, right in front of our eyes.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

I presume all those thinking we’re stronger than last year will be filling their boots on a top half finish given SkyBet have us at 5/2? Bloody good odds for a team that finished top half last season you’d think.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

SkyBet also say [odds wise] we're twice as likely as Brighton to go down

 

[GoldFlagFlyingHigh]

I presume all those thinking we’re stronger than last year will be filling their boots on a top half finish given SkyBet have us at 5/2? Bloody good odds for a team that finished top half last season you’d think.

We can be a stronger team than last season but also finish lower in the table. Some serious competition to get in the top half this season. It would be a good achievement if Bruno could do it again.

 

[Johnny75]

I presume all those thinking we’re stronger than last year will be filling their boots on a top half finish given SkyBet have us at 5/2? Bloody good odds for a team that finished top half last season you’d think.

Bookies? Those lads are never wrong.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Given that prize money aside it doesn't matter too much where you finish between 8th and 14th (providing the latter means you're never really getting sucked into danger) then that's not how I'll define progress. We were 10th last season but it meant so little as we were an absolute chore to watch. We are very unlikely to finish 6th/7th.

Better entertainment, more goals, better in game management, no relegation scrap and a better tilt at the cups. That would all be very welcome.

 

[The Bear]

5/2 for top half is crap odds!

4 or 5 to 1 I might have been tempted.

 

[Alan]

Bookies? Those lads are never wrong.

God damn it, Deano, I thought we banned you.

 

[Deano]

Given that prize money aside it doesn't matter too much where you finish between 8th and 14th (providing the latter means you're never really getting sucked into danger) then that's not how I'll define progress. We were 10th last season but it meant so little as we were an absolute chore to watch. We are very unlikely to finish 6th/7th.

Better entertainment, more goals, better in game management, no relegation scrap and a better tilt at the cups. That would all be very welcome.

This. In that section of midtable, the positions are quite irrelevant. Palace finished lower than us last season but their fans had a hell of a lot more fun watching their team than we did and we both got the same outcome.

 

[jd1981]

I don’t buy it’s a new season so it’s a fresh start mantra. Players we will be starting out with are very similar to identical of that finished last season so badly.
The change in formation is fine as long as Bruno can fathom what his best attacking options are something he didn’t do last season.

 

[1986]

I don’t buy it’s a new season so it’s a fresh start mantra. Players we will be starting out with are very similar to identical of that finished last season so badly.
The change in formation is fine as long as Bruno can fathom what his best attacking options are something he didn’t do last season.

Just one small thing .

If we start with a back 4 containing Kilman and Collins , Jonny and RAN......that's a lot different to a back 5 of Semedo , Kilman , Coady , Boly and Marcal . That's a fresh start .

 

[jd1981]

The point was on an attacking basis and how our manager struggled to get a tune out of what was available to him.

 

[Dire Wolf]

The point was on an attacking basis and how our manager struggled to get a tune out of what was available to him.

For all Lage's faults, and he seems to have a fair few, it does appear as if he was hamstrung in an attacking sense by being restricted to playing 3 at the back. Doesn't excuse the fact that those attacking players he did have are essentially the same as now so why could he not get any decent level of creativity out of them, but still, the point remains that the 3 at the back undoubtedly hampered his options going forward.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

For all Lage's faults, and he seems to have a fair few, it does appear as if he was hamstrung in an attacking sense by being restricted to playing 3 at the back. Doesn't excuse the fact that those attacking players he did have are essentially the same as now so why could he not get any decent level of creativity out of them, but still, the point remains that the 3 at the back undoubtedly hampered his options going forward.

It did (mainly as our wingbacks are never going to be goalscoring/assisting machines, and Doherty wasn't one either before anyone brings him up).

But he didn't *have* to play that way. We were losing all the time with three at the back, as I say, that form is inexcusably awful. What was there to lose from trying something else, wasn't like we could get fewer than 0 points out of games? Didn't even try it at home to already relegated Norwich when there was effectively nothing at all to play for.

 

[Johnny75]

The point was on an attacking basis and how our manager struggled to get a tune out of what was available to him.

By the looks of the friendlies he's very much changed that tune.

 

[Lupollet]

I hope you are like this across all aspects of your life

"We are going to have a great holiday"
No we won't. It will rain, the beer will be shit and the restaurants will only serve foreign muck.

"Going to cook your favourite meal tonight, you looked stressed out"
Hardly call it my favourite and I can guarantee you will burn it and ruin whatever nice memories I have of this meal.

If Jeff Shi had anything to do with it my holiday would be dreadful and the steak would come from farm foods.

 

[The Bear]

Seasons don't exist in isolation though. We won 3 of our last 14, Newcastle won 12 of their last 18, they ended up finishing not far behind us, we have both signed a highly rated centre half each for the first team...who do you think goes into the season with higher hopes? Who finished above us last season that we can realistically hope to overtake, based on the current state of affairs? You don't just press reset in May and it's as if nothing that happened in the last 9-10 months exists any more.

It's historically a far better indicator to look at the previous actual season's results and performances rather than anything in pre-season.

We lost 7 out of the last 10 games in 20/21 under Nuno.

Yet we had a decent start to the season after, first three games aside, which was a tough start with Leicester/Spurs/Man Utd, coupled with trying to play an attacking 4 at the back with no real training for it.

The following 10 games when we went to 3 at the back again we won 6 and drew 2. I don't think it really matters how you finished the previous season unless you're already a favourite for relegation before the season started.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't think losing 4 of your first 5 games and scoring one goal through one of your own players along the way is a "decent start".

If we do that again then we'll have a new manager fairly soon.

We never played four at the back last season in a competitive game, not from the start anyway? Where have you got that from?

 

[Johnny75]

Definitely 3-4-3 all last season. From the opening minute.

 

[The Bear]

I thought our attacking first three games was with Lage trying a back four? I may have misremembered that though! Even still, it was a tough start and an abrupt new style of playing. And was widely regarded by everyone in here to be a completely undeserved set of results.

It's all irrelevant any way. We'll perform however we perform. Either the new formation clicks and we do alright, or it'll be a mess and we'll struggle to get going.

But I doubt any of the players are remembering back to any of last seasons games and shitting themselves before they even get out there.