O'Neil In, Out and Shaking it all about

[slink]

We could be on 3/4 points for sure, however there are so many underlying issues stopping that.
- we look gassed out at 60 mins every time
- as you say his in game management, but especially substitutions.
- lack of balance in attack (and across the squad generally)
- picking someone like Doherty
- starting Bellegarde every game who is clearly not good enough
- I disagree about how he sets up a team introduction of Andre has helped slightly but still setting up with so much space between midfield and defence, that’s not inexperience that’s stupidity

We could be on 6/7 in all honesty had we seen performances through. I know we haven’t but that’s my point. Despite clear issues it’s been more him not being able to adapt and manage in game that has cost us than anything else. Most of us would never play Bellegarde and Lemina in the positions they have played this season but we were leading and in control against Newcastle and Villa with that set up, we can’t ignore that because it’s not what we think he should be doing or because of the end result.

- we have looked tired at times but generally this has been about the time the opposition have made subs and presses us more. His subs and reaction to this have been awful.
-As mentioned above.
- I agree there is a lack of balance, players playing out of position and not utilising the strengths of the team.
-I would never pick Doc but he has and it obviously cost us against Newcastle but he’s actually done ok in some games.
- Bellegarde despite being played out of position was actually having an impact on both the Newcastle and Villa games, particularly off the ball. He’s another i don’t think i would pick and I’m not sure what he is but when’s he’s come off in those games we got worse.
- I think i said after Chelsea and Forest that i wasn’t a fan of the chaotic midfield but it’s fact that we’ve done well in first halves and been in good positions and caused teams issues despite what we would do.
I think you’ve proved my point really in this post that all i’m seeing is people confirming what they want to believe/what they think. I think it’s GON’s fault that we aren’t on 6/7/8 points as i’ve said his game management is appalling but doesn’t mean i can’t see the there are clear positives with our first half performances and the squad as a whole really if it was used correctly.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

Here's a question.
I am not si sure quite where mario is playing these days, but i am seeing a swashbuckling in amongst it all captain running all over the field, dishing out instructions, comments to players and in short virtually running the game.
So here's the question:
Is super mario overpowering Gon's instructions, changing things with his own positional change? In short having a bit too much involvement with his own ideas?
Just asking.

 

[slink]

Being able to react tactically to the needs of the game is every bit as important as being able to set up well though. Slink I feel like your first paragraph was setting up for an entire post of defence, but actually it's 90% criticism, even though it's veiled or sugared. I think the 'we need to give him time, he'll come good' attitude is pretty similar to all the times people thought Adama had finally turned his potential into consistency. But it never has, and it never well.

If he had the potential to change a game, he'd have done it by now. He looks more naive now than he did in his early Bournemouth games! He's sat on two wins in the last twenty games, that's not a hard luck story - it's a not good enough story.

I agree that being able to react tactically is just as if not more important hence why i said there’s no point being in those good positions if we can’t see it through. My point is purely on the balance of posts from my point of view where there is only one view.
I wouldn’t give him time at all and i’ve not said that. I don’t think he will be able to suddenly start managing a game while we’re playing so i’d go and get someone better. We’ve got some unbelievable players that are being wasted.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

We could be on 6/7 in all honesty had we seen performances through. I know we haven’t but that’s my point. Despite clear issues it’s been more him not being able to adapt and manage in game that has cost us than anything else. Most of us would never play Bellegarde and Lemina in the positions they have played this season but we were leading and in control against Newcastle and Villa with that set up, we can’t ignore that because it’s not what we think he should be doing or because of the end result.

- we have looked tired at times but generally this has been about the time the opposition have made subs and presses us more. His subs and reaction to this have been awful.
-As mentioned above.
- I agree there is a lack of balance, players playing out of position and not utilising the strengths of the team.
-I would never pick Doc but he has and it obviously cost us against Newcastle but he’s actually done ok in some games.
- Bellegarde despite being played out of position was actually having an impact on both the Newcastle and Villa games, particularly off the ball. He’s another i don’t think i would pick and I’m not sure what he is but when’s he’s come off in those games we got worse.
- I think i said after Chelsea and Forest that i wasn’t a fan of the chaotic midfield but it’s fact that we’ve done well in first halves and been in good positions and caused teams issues despite what we would do.
I think you’ve proved my point really in this post that all i’m seeing is people confirming what they want to believe/what they think. I think it’s GON’s fault that we aren’t on 6/7/8 points as i’ve said his game management is appalling but doesn’t mean i can’t see the there are clear positives with our first half performances and the squad as a whole really if it was used correctly.

Many top club athletes could be in the lead at the bell in the 1500m Olympic final if they ran the first 1100m as fast as they could. We look good because we don’t pace ourselves. It’s not just losing leads, on Sunday we barely laid a finger on Liverpool after they went back in the lead because yet again we’d run out of steam.

 

[slink]

Many top club athletes could be in the lead at the bell in the 1500m Olympic final if they ran the first 1100m as fast as they could. We look good because we don’t pace ourselves. It’s not just losing leads, on Sunday we barely laid a finger on Liverpool after they went back in the lead because yet again we’d run out of steam.

I don’t think that was due to fitness though, it was a tactical and belief thing. The penalty knocked the stuffing out of us and then taking Larsen off nullified anything we had. Liverpool pressed us in midfield allowing us to have it deep but Hwang was genuinely like a competition winner and we didn’t have any idea what to do. We brought a passer on in Doyle with no one to pass to apart from Forbs really.

 

[Del Woppio]

I agree that being able to react tactically is just as if not more important hence why i said there’s no point being in those good positions if we can’t see it through. My point is purely on the balance of posts from my point of view where there is only one view.
I wouldn’t give him time at all and i’ve not said that. I don’t think he will be able to suddenly start managing a game while we’re playing so i’d go and get someone better. We’ve got some unbelievable players that are being wasted.

I think we can all acknowledge there's been positive play in periods, an sections of the game where we've competed or looked on top, but for me that just elevates the case for getting rid tbh. He's unable to get a team to capitalise on good moments; he struggles to get us convert good territory into quality chances, and when we do score he stuggles to adapt to that momentum change properly, either being too offensive and not protecting something, or going way too far the other way. It just never looks controlled, even in the good patches.

 

[KiwiWolf61]

I haven't really commented much at all re GON but I've been following this thread quite closely and in all honesty the posters on this forum show considerably more intelligence and critical analysis on how the team is performing and where GON is proving to be out of his depth.

We are sleep walking into relegation and Shi and his muppets either don't care, are too pig-headed or are simply incapable of running a moderately competent club that it's simply bewildering, especially given the amount of money at stake.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We had good moments in games in 2011/12 under Mick. Still went an age without a win and he ended up getting the sack. Because that's all that counts in the end.

 

[Jinky]

I think we can all acknowledge there's been positive play in periods, an sections of the game where we've competed or looked on top, but for me that just elevates the case for getting rid tbh. He's unable to get a team to capitalise on good moments; he struggles to get us convert good territory into quality chances, and when we do score he stuggles to adapt to that momentum change properly, either being too offensive and not protecting something, or going way too far the other way. It just never looks controlled, even in the good patches.

This post sums it up perfectly.

I appreciate where Slink is coming from, but I actually think most/all of us on here can see the positives in the performances & I'd say even Gaz's harshest critics have acknowledged them (apart from @YoungWolf - he hates the guy ) - if he'd have just managed us to a win or two, or even a couple of draws, given the tough start and the position we found ourselves in during the matches - I suspect the general feeling on the board would be different. But it's impossible to ignore the run of form, the glaring lack of in-game management and the quite frankly, weird insistence to carry on with things like playing Lemina out of position, hooking JSL every game - bringing on the likes of Hwang/Doc & ignoring better options etc. We're actively worse after Gaz speaks to them at half time and he has no idea how to change the pattern of a game, but then comes out in his post match pressers and blames the players. "The lads need to work on this", "they can do better here" etc etc.

We worked on a plan and a way of playing through pre-season and then tore that up about a week before our first game. We then got tore to shreds in the second half v Chelsea because he didn't tighten things up or spot the obvious issues - then he completely flips that and has us defending the edge of our box for 30+ minutes a couple of weeks later when we're 1-0 up (and we go on to lose). There is no semblance of a plan, style or structure. He seems to be flipping between ideas on a weekly basis depending on which way the wind is blowing.

So I'll go back to your original point, Slink. We can see the good bits - they're not really clouding our judgement. But they count for absolutely nothing when we're losing every week. Massive game v Brentford - lets wait and see what he does there because for me it's a "must win".

 

[Dire Wolf]

I think we can all acknowledge there's been positive play in periods, an sections of the game where we've competed or looked on top, but for me that just elevates the case for getting rid tbh. He's unable to get a team to capitalise on good moments; he struggles to get us convert good territory into quality chances, and when we do score he stuggles to adapt to that momentum change properly, either being too offensive and not protecting something, or going way too far the other way. It just never looks controlled, even in the good patches.

As @YoungWolf and others have been saying since last season even when we were playing quite well at times, he cannot coach the team how to defend. And if we can't defend we are always going to be in trouble, because it means we have to score 2 or 3 goals in every game, and we are not good enough to do that.

He has to go, and we have to get a manager/coach in place who will do enough to have us well organised defensively so the rot is stopped.

 

[slink]

So I'll go back to your original point, Slink. We can see the good bits - they're not really clouding our judgement. But they count for absolutely nothing when we're losing every week. Massive game v Brentford - lets wait and see what he does there because for me it's a "must win".

It’s obviously not everyone and lots of the comments have been off here too. I get the negatives outweigh positives and they always do but i still think you need to acknowledge the positives and i think most comments are completely negative. I’ve said that at the end of the day it’s results that matter and i don’t think he’s capable of turning it around. Brentford is massive and we need to win asap of course but i think while the results haven’t shown it parts of the performances have, we just need GON to magically start to manage in game.

 

[YoungWolf]

It’s crying shame that football matches last 90 minutes isn’t it.

We’ve won once in 18. How on earth does that mean people are looking to confirm what they already think. I actually think there are a lot the other way round who were creaming themselves over pre-season games (embarrassing ffs) who don’t want to admit what is happening here

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It’s crying shame that football matches last 90 minutes isn’t it.

We’ve won once in 18. How on earth does that mean people are looking to confirm what they already think. I actually think there are a lot the other way round who were creaming themselves over pre-season games (embarrassing ffs) who don’t want to admit what is happening here

I don't get the confidence that things will suddenly improve either.

You might look at Palace (H), Bournemouth (H) and Fulham (A) as notionally easier than what we've had so far. You know how many points we got from those fixtures last season? Nice round number. We were absolutely shite in all of them.

 

[Squeak]

I'm probably one who is more positive than most about our season so far but I find it increasingly difficult to defend a coach who plays a bloke like Bellegarde on the left when he is so obviously right footed. And that brings me to another point, who the hell is scouting players like this and who is agreeing to sign players like this when they can't use both feet? This is arguably the top domestic league in the world and you would think that every single player in that league should be comfortable with either foot.

 

[Squeak]

I don't get the confidence that things will suddenly improve either.

You might look at Palace (H), Bournemouth (H) and Fulham (A) as notionally easier than what we've had so far. You know how many points we got from those fixtures last season? Nice round number. We were absolutely shite in all of them.

I'm increasingly of this mindset given the fitting of square pegs in round holes that is going on. Yes, I see some positives, but then the failure to deal with the obvious negatives, really doesn't point to improvement.

 

[1986]

Writing off the tough fixtures puts massive pressure on the team for the ones that are regarded as not so tough , pressure that I don't think we can handle right now .
O'Neil will now clearly be here until November , and then it seems that the countdown will begin .

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Even taking the pressure aspect out of it (and what losing every week is doing to morale) - are we even a better team than say, Palace or Bournemouth? I don't think we are, we finished below both last season and they both have much better balanced squads to my eye. And I'd take Glasner or Iraola over O'Neil without even thinking about it.

 

[KiwiWolf61]

I am sick to death hearing from GON and the club that we will improve results when we play against the lesser teams.

Well I'd reckon the so-called lesser teams will see us as much easier pickings for points.

Are we trying to emulate Derby from 2007/08 because that's where we're heading towards.

 

[Jinky]

I'm probably one who is more positive than most about our season so far but I find it increasingly difficult to defend a coach who plays a bloke like Bellegarde on the left when he is so obviously right footed. And that brings me to another point, who the hell is scouting players like this and who is agreeing to sign players like this when they can't use both feet? This is arguably the top domestic league in the world and you would think that every single player in that league should be comfortable with either foot.

I think Bellegarde falls in to the category where we signed him because he was available for a reasonable fee (about £12m iirc), and we're confident that eventually we'll make money on him. Got bugger all to do whether he fits our squad, starting 11 etc.

In fairness, I don't think even Jean-Ricner himself even knows what he's supposed to be so God knows how Gaz will ever work it out. Just stop playing him.

 

[Johnny75]

I think Bellegarde falls in to the category where we signed him because he was available for a reasonable fee (about £12m iirc), and we're confident that eventually we'll make money on him. Got bugger all to do whether he fits our squad, starting 11 etc.

In fairness, I don't think even Jean-Ricner himself even knows what he's supposed to be so God knows how Gaz will ever work it out. Just stop playing him.

I'd actually like to see him play in the centre of midfield in a 3 as he's a good ball carrier and clearly likes a strike from distance.

We'd have to change to 4-3-3 for that to happen and drop either João or Mario.

GoN just won't do that as he's wedded to his stupid system.

What JRB isn't is a winger and I've no idea why GoLage keeps persisting with him there.