O'Neil In, Out and Shaking it all about

[Johnny75]

A lot of what he says is fine in terms of how modern teams set up in and out of possession. Most of the time I can kinda see what he is trying to achieve, even if the execution of it isn’t great or the defenders aren’t up to it.

My concern is I find his approach a bit too close to Saunders-esque “setting up based on the opposition” and not really ever feeling like we are dominating a game. Not entirely his fault as the squad isn’t good enough to do that consistently but I would like to see a clearer identity/principles. I don’t think he has that even if he has the players.

I get what he's trying to achieve but the players don't. That's fairly obvious.

Now, and this addresses @Lycan post too, that could be a communication breakdown from GoN to the players or players not understanding or players just not having the ability to do what he wants then to do as @Deutsch Wolf says. Probably a combination of all 3.

Whatever it is, he needs to change because players have a finite time for understanding and if they just can't grasp the managers ideas they will get frustrated and lose game after game.

I understand the game changes but if you go too fast too soon the changes he is trying to implement will never succeed.

I agree with you on the Saunders thing, GoN's words don't come across as a man who knows what his plan is day to day in an attacking sense. I find that worrying.

 

[Johnny75]

Which is why I thought what Lopetegui had done pretty well was largely settle on that 442. Seemed a better alternative to just a 541 which was what we usually reverted too.

That's the difference between a world class manager and a first team coach.

It's why Lage failed here too.

 

[Lycan]

A lot of what he says is fine in terms of how modern teams set up in and out of possession. Most of the time I can kinda see what he is trying to achieve, even if the execution of it isn’t great or the defenders aren’t up to it.

My concern is I find his approach a bit too close to Saunders-esque “setting up based on the opposition” and not really ever feeling like we are dominating a game. Not entirely his fault as the squad isn’t good enough to do that consistently but I would like to see a clearer identity/principles. I don’t think he has that even if he has the players.

Yeah he's talked before about how he wants us to be able to do 'everything' and subsequently about how he's had to adjust his expectations based on individual players.

I don't think he talks like this or his teams play this way in 2 or 3 years, unfortunately we've got this version of O'Neil where his teams just end up looking average and inconsistent.

 

[Johnny75]

Yeah he's talked before about how he wants us to be able to do 'everything' and subsequently about how he's had to adjust his expectations based on individual players.

I don't think he talks like this or his teams play this way in 2 or 3 years, unfortunately we've got this version of O'Neil where his teams just end up looking average and inconsistent.

It would be good to know what he's trying to achieve.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The basic 3-4-3 is pretty good when we have Neto.

- Extra man at the back means we play it to Sa less, which is always a good thing, don't confuse the fella as it doesn't take much
- Your back three has pace and recovery power (Toti), experience and aerial strength (Dawson) and someone to largely sweep up danger (Kilman, and even as a stern critic I'll say he's decent at this)
- One WB to give attacking threat on the left and the other to be more defensive (Semedo) and also another recovery option if teams break on us
- Two CMs who break a lot up but aren't just stoppers, they can play, Doyle an option if you want a more expansive passer
- Neto with direct running threat and sheer quality on the ball
- Cunha linking play and again running at opponents
- Hwang picking up pieces in the box and our best finisher by a distance

Problem is that it relies on key players being fit and in form all the time, and that extra CH is always going to look weird on the occasions that we play teams who don't try to attack us very much, especially as none of them are particularly good on the ball.

 

[Johnny75]

The basic 3-4-3 is pretty good when we have Neto.

- Extra man at the back means we play it to Sa less, which is always a good thing, don't confuse the fella as it doesn't take much
- Your back three has pace and recovery power (Toti), experience and aerial strength (Dawson) and someone to largely sweep up danger (Kilman, and even as a stern critic I'll say he's decent at this)
- One WB to give attacking threat on the left and the other to be more defensive (Semedo) and also another recovery option if teams break on us
- Two CMs who break a lot up but aren't just stoppers, they can play, Doyle an option if you want a more expansive passer
- Neto with direct running threat and sheer quality on the ball
- Cunha linking play and again running at opponents
- Hwang picking up pieces in the box and our best finisher by a distance

Problem is that it relies on key players being fit and in form all the time, and that extra CH is always going to look weird on the occasions that we play teams who don't try to attack us very much, especially as none of them are particularly good on the ball.

I wish he kept it that simple.

 

[Lycan]

Problem is that it relies on key players being fit and in form all the time

This is going to be the issue with anything we do at the moment unfortunately. That's what happens when you completely gut a squad in one transfer window, you end up with an unbalanced squad lacking in depth.

O'Neil is making the issue worse by not utilising some of the genuine options he does have though.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

The basic 3-4-3 is pretty good when we have Neto.

- Extra man at the back means we play it to Sa less, which is always a good thing, don't confuse the fella as it doesn't take much
- Your back three has pace and recovery power (Toti), experience and aerial strength (Dawson) and someone to largely sweep up danger (Kilman, and even as a stern critic I'll say he's decent at this)
- One WB to give attacking threat on the left and the other to be more defensive (Semedo) and also another recovery option if teams break on us
- Two CMs who break a lot up but aren't just stoppers, they can play, Doyle an option if you want a more expansive passer
- Neto with direct running threat and sheer quality on the ball
- Cunha linking play and again running at opponents
- Hwang picking up pieces in the box and our best finisher by a distance

Problem is that it relies on key players being fit and in form all the time, and that extra CH is always going to look weird on the occasions that we play teams who don't try to attack us very much, especially as none of them are particularly good on the ball.

The problem GO has is that losing just one player turns us from competent to well below average. I guess every team outside the top eight or so has one or two key players that can radically change how they perform but other than Palace and Zaha it’s hard to think of a team so reliant on one player to make them tick. I’m still uncertain in my own mind whether that is more down to GO or the players he has at his disposal.

 

[Wolftone]

Just watched Gary's latest press conference. Have to say, he comes across as level headed, articulate and genuinely sound person and at only 40 could become a Wolves legend with some backing.

 

[Johnny75]

Just watched Gary's latest press conference. Have to say, he comes across as level headed, articulate and genuinely sound person and at only 40 could become a Wolves legend with some backing.

Think you may have overdone the Christmas grog today.

 

[HanDoJin]

He'll never be truly popular with some -rightly or wrongly -but you've got to find this more enjoyable than anything we've seen since before the pandemic. There were moments under JL when we really played quick, purposeful football (first half at Villa Park, away at Fulham too). But to have only drawn blanks twice this season is pretty remarkable considering.

Will be very interesting to see us with an actual #9

 

[Tony Towner]

Like any manager I'll criticise when I think it's deserved and I'm still not convinced, but whoever was manager this season after the Summer transfer policy would be doing very well to have 25 points at the halfway stage. He's performing above expectations of not just himself but probably anyone who had the job. Add a point extra against Man U, Fulham and Sheff U into the mix, probably 2 at Luton, -1 v Villa (ignoring Newcastle) and it would be even better

 

[Wolvensam]

Him and his team deserve a fair amount of credit for how this season has gone thus far. 5 wins (max) from safety and 27 goals scored already - albeit at the expense of a bit of defensive solidity. I think GoN is benefitting here from a fairly solid coaching set up and the players do clearly buy in and enjoy what they’re doing, you can’t question that him and his team can spot tactical issues on the pitch and, 6 times out of 10, address them. The question is whether he can kick on to the next stage.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

To be honest I would rather score 50 and let in 48 than 30 and 28.

This morning was great fun. As was beating Chelsea and the late turnaround against Spurs. And never anything wrong when beating Manchester City.

My annoyed game is Liverpool strangely. We were doing so well and Klopp made changes that GON wasn’t able to react to. But that’s elite versus learning on the job.

We shall of course not mention Brighton or West Ham.

He’s a newbie. It’s not going to be perfect but a decent amount of credit I. The bank for me. A lot more than I initially expected to be fair.

 

[Wolvensam]

He’s not going to be perfect after 15-16 months of Premier League management but I think there are some signs of improvement. And he has improved/knows how to utilise players we have: Hwang and Cunha have come on a fair bit, and after his Boxing Day heroics last year RAN began to get frozen out of the team - whereas now he’s cut the tricks and ‘flash’ to a minimum and his defensive reading of the game is getting there.

 

[BillyDee]

Definite improvement. I still cringe at his interviews though.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

It’s easy to find fault with any manager whether it’s tactics, starting XI or substitutes. Obviously the likes of Klopp and Pep make less mistakes but they have far better players and squads to work with. I’m pretty sure every mid-table manager makes as many decisions that get criticised as GO. I’m not convinced many other realistic options would have got more points than GO with the squad he has and I’m looking forward to seeing who we bring in and whether it will allow him to evolve a style of play that will allow us to deal better with teams who sit back line Forest did.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Our problem like any team wishing to improve in the top flight will be fighting the low block. We should also take credit that teams have to use that against us though

 

[Johnny75]

It’s easy to find fault with any manager whether it’s tactics, starting XI or substitutes. Obviously the likes of Klopp and Pep make less mistakes but they have far better players and squads to work with. I’m pretty sure every mid-table manager makes as many decisions that get criticised as GO. I’m not convinced many other realistic options would have got more points than GO with the squad he has and I’m looking forward to seeing who we bring in and whether it will allow him to evolve a style of play that will allow us to deal better with teams who sit back line Forest did.

This is just not true. There are hundreds of managers out there who would be better than GoN with this squad.

They just weren't available 2 days before the season started. Let's not paint this as GoN is the best we could get. If we started a proper recruitment process in March we'd have somebody better in from the start of pre-season.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

This is just not true. There are hundreds of managers out there who would be better than GoN with this squad.

They just weren't available 2 days before the season started. Let's not paint this as GoN is the best we could get. If we started a proper recruitment process in March we'd have somebody better in form the start of pre-season.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. GO had no right to get the job but having got it and started with a very tough run of games he’s found a way to get points on board. That’s with our best player missing a lot of games and no forward options that fit how he wants to play. Look at the preseason predictions and not many saw us level on points with 10th place. He’s improved a lot of players and deserves credit for what he’s achieved so far. Whether he can keep it up remains to be seen. Out of interest as there are hundreds of managers that would be better with this squad perhaps you can name a few that were realistic options.