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O'Neil aka GONe

Elephant Pyjamas said:
Maybe we should judge Cunha on how he was for the 6 months after he signed rather than this 6 months prior too?

Or RAN? Who prior to this season has massively flattered to deceive? Why is it only Hwang who is subject to this critical scrutiny when he has scored more goals than anyone (with Cunha) since Raul??
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Well you've answered the Cunha question yourself with the time frame and I disagree with your premise on RAN
 
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Wilf Wolf said:
Hugely mitigating? I’m not sure it explains an inability to trap a ball?
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Was Hwang's role prior to the Asia Cup holding the ball up with a big CB up his arse ever his role?

Because his lack of ability to do that is what you're criticising him for now?
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
Was Hwang's role prior to the Asia Cup holding the ball up with a big CB up his arse ever his role?

Because his lack of ability to do that is what you're criticising him for now?
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I’ve watched him mis control without a player near him enough times to know it’s not as simple as that.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
You don't think this is RAN's best season?
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Best yes, "previously flattered to deceive", no. I've always been confident in his ability from the year we signed him on loan and throughout last season said his ceiling was higher than Bueno's he just needed consistency and a manager who believed in him, he's 22.
 
Tony Towner said:
Best yes, "previously flattered to deceive", no. I've always been confident in his ability from the year we signed him on loan and throughout last season said his ceiling was higher than Bueno's he just needed consistency and a manager who believed in him, he's 22.
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But my point was how there have been loads of players who have had a significant upturn in form and sustained it. RAN I'm sure will be one of them. Semedo is actually another, for the majority of his time at Wolves he has been about 6/10, he's 8/10 this season.

I'll say it again,judging Hwang now on how he has performed in 2.5 games since he returned from a gruelling, unsuccessful tournament with a shit manager on the other side of the world, when he is being asked to play a role he clearly doesnt and can't play, whilst he is fatigued/injured and also without Cunha is clearly unfair.

If he, Cunha and Neto were our front 3 for those 2.5 games and he'd performed poorly and not scored, fine (even allowing for fatigue/injury). But that's not the case.

It's like judging Gomes on how he performed at LW if we played him there for a couple of games, rather than how he as performed in CM "he's shit, sell him!"
 
Hwang clearly struggles with disruptions, if he's in and out of the team or picking up constant niggling injuries then his form is going to be up and down. When he's had an extended run in the team like the first half of this season and when he first joined and was linking up with Raúl he's looked good.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I'll say it again,judging Hwang now on how he has performed in 2.5 games since he returned from a gruelling, unsuccessful tournament with a shit manager on the other side of the world, when he is being asked to play a role he clearly doesnt and can't play, whilst he is fatigued/injured and also without Cunha is clearly unfair.
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I'm not, I've consistently said there's a decent chance what we saw pre Xmas was a mirage. I said it when he signed a new contract and also on the transfer thread re regretting not selling him if we get an offer that reflects this seasons form. Fwiw I think it's fair to discount those games for the reasons you stated.
 
Lycan said:
Hwang clearly struggles with disruptions, if he's in and out of the team or picking up constant niggling injuries then his form is going to be up and down. When he's had an extended run in the team like the first half of this season and when he first joined and was linking up with Raúl he's looked good.
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Agreed.

He's human, there aren't many players who handle disruption well, Neto has often taken a while to get back up to speed. In fact a year or so ago he was being written off!

I just don't think Hwang is cut the same slack as others, in some ways understandably as he was turd for a while.

But it's different now, we have an attacking manager, him, Neto and Cunha as a trio has been genuinely brilliant. Let's judge him when he's back playing with those 3?
 
Lycan said:
All well and good saying 'just extend' but he's not just going to accept a pay cut is he? He'd probably be justified in asking for more, it's not like he wouldn't get it elsewhere.

If it's £20M now or £0 12 months down the line this current version of Wolves are always going to lean towards a sale.
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I wouldn’t offer him a pay cut because we can’t for reasons you say. So I’d give him a 2 (with ideally option in clubs favour for 3) year deal. No amortisation, £4-5m a year wages (guessing he’s on £80k p/w) for a reliable performer. If he won’t sign then we have no choice but to sell, but I don’t see this as likely.
 
PuntsWolf said:
I wouldn’t offer him a pay cut because we can’t for reasons you say. So I’d give him a 2 (with ideally option in clubs favour for 3) year deal. No amortisation, £4-5m a year wages (guessing he’s on £80k p/w) for a reliable performer. If he won’t sign then we have no choice but to sell, but I don’t see this as likely.
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He'll be on more than that, guaranteed. We could barely afford to trigger the 2 year extension we had in our favour in the summer.

Like I said though, it's all well and good saying 'give him a 2 year deal' but he's still got to sign it. He'll be in demand in the summer. He's at the peak of his career, has a vast amount of experience and has been performing at the highest level consistently for a long time now. He'd improve a great number of teams in this league and across Europe, most of whom will be able to offer him a hell of a lot more than we can. His agent will be well aware of that and so will Wolves.
 
Lycan said:
He'll be on more than that, guaranteed. We could barely afford to trigger the 2 year extension we had in our favour in the summer.

Like I said though, it's all well and good saying 'give him a 2 year deal' but he's still got to sign it. He'll be in demand in the summer. He's at the peak of his career, has a vast amount of experience and has been performing at the highest level consistently for a long time now. He'd improve a great number of teams in this league and across Europe, most of whom will be able to offer him a hell of a lot more than we can. His agent will be well aware of that and so will Wolves.
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So with all that being true we get close to the £30m I mentioned and we sell him as I originally put.
 
Well that’s the point. If no one is offering that, then I see no point in selling him for £15m IF he was willing to extend.
 
PuntsWolf said:
Well that’s the point. If no one is offering that, then I see no point in selling him for £15m IF he was willing to extend.
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No. If he's willing to extend then the point is moot as we'd be after way more than that.

The point is that the scenario where he walks for free at the end of next season is the worst possible outcome for the club.
 
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