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Live Match Discussion: 2020/21

Cyber said:
Well we wanted consistency ,

unfortunately it is consistently abysmal
Ridiculous INTERPRETATION of a simple rule
Click to expand...
3 goals scored with a similar position for offside 8n 3 games so far. 2 looked at in tiny detail and one not at all. No consistency there
 
Silva was clearly onside that's why it was barely checked. It's these proeposterous shoulder decisions that need chucking in the bin.
 
Jack Regan said:
Silva was clearly onside that's why it was barely checked.
Click to expand...
First viewing it was as close as Podence then no further replays were shown so haven't seen any freeze frames of it.
 
Meh. I can live with those, it’s rubbish but I can live with it. He has gained an advantage being offside.

The ones that are the most infuriating are the Bamford arm, Podence arm, Jonny toe, Neto trailing leg, where they are going no advantage and their whole body is onside.
Cyber said:
Well we wanted consistency ,

unfortunately it is consistently abysmal
Ridiculous INTERPRETATION of a simple rule
Click to expand...
I don’t get what you mean by this interpretation line? Now it’s quiet you can explain? The rules on offside are black and white, they are shit but there is no interpretation?
 
Kenny said:
First viewing it was as close as Podence then no further replays were shown so haven't seen any freeze frames of it.
Click to expand...
They showed it two or three times and he was moving back towards the ball so I thought it was pretty clear he was onside. You would assume it was checked thorougly but it's easy to be cynical about these things when it's not shown. It's these ones where the forward is running towards the goal which are always going to be scrutinized more. If Diogo controls the ball or scores with the offside body part then fair enough. However his shoulder being a millimeter offside is just stupid, the same as Podence last night.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
And another absolutely shit VAR offside decision. Bin it. For the love of God.
Click to expand...
While I agree that VAR is not working, surely the thing that needs binning is the fucking ridiculous rule that says a mm of body part being offside can rule a goal out? And simply do away with the mathematical line drawing bollocks: if it looks onside to the naked eye then it's fucking onside. If you have to get a computer to draw lines to tell if someone is offside then they are not offside.
 
PuntsWolf said:
Meh. I can live with those, it’s rubbish but I can live with it. He has gained an advantage being offside.

The ones that are the most infuriating are the Bamford arm, Podence arm, Jonny toe, Neto trailing leg, where they are going no advantage and their whole body is onside.

I don’t get what you mean by this interpretation line? Now it’s quiet you can explain? The rules on offside are black and white, they are shit but there is no interpretation?
Click to expand...
No where in the rules does it say anything about your shirt line. That is a directive for interpretation of the rule
The huge issue I have with that is if you scored a goal off your shirt line it would prrtty much certainly be ruled out as the ref would give it and VAR not overrule it as it’s note clear and obvious.
It says A player is in an offside position if: any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents' half (excluding the halfway line) and. any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent.

so arm isn’t mentioned and it’s the guidance on interpretation of this rule that brings the shirt, arm and armpit I into it.
 
Cyber said:
No where in the rules does it say anything about your shirt line. That is a directive for interpretation of the rule
The huge issue I have with that is if you scored a goal off your shirt line it would prrtty much certainly be ruled out as the ref would give it and VAR not overrule it as it’s note clear and obvious.
It says A player is in an offside position if: any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents' half (excluding the halfway line) and. any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents' goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent.

so arm isn’t mentioned and it’s the guidance on interpretation of this rule that brings the shirt, arm and armpit I into it.
Click to expand...
It’s the furthest forward part of your body you can score a goal with... which since they changed the handball rule in the summer is the end of your tshirt line...

They may not have updated whatever 2005 rule book you are reading, but they literally said it’s the shirt line in the summer when they changed the rules (again).
 
Last edited:
Deciding which frame to use is open to interpretation. Deciding exactly where the t-shirt line is on each player is open to interpretation, as is which part of the defender's body is furthest forward. And if its the arm, again exactly where to put the line. Players arms are different shape and sizes, and judging that precisely based on the angle they have and the position of the players body and arm makes it inconsistent.

Just look at the reactions to these decisions, where people can't agree whether they've drawn the lines correctly, or if they've used the right frame for it. There's constant arguments over them whether it's being correctly applied. It can never be precise because humans are involved, and the humans change every game.

It's an absolute nonsense rule and way of doing it.
 
Just look at Podence's left arm in yesterday's still frame. It's not side on, it's pointing down and away. So you're relying on depth perception on a 2D image to decide the exact position of a theoretical t-shirt line, based on a guess where it would be on Podence's arm.
 
The Bear said:
Just look at Podence's left arm in yesterday's still frame. It's not side on, it's pointing down and away. So you're relying on depth perception on a 2D image to decide the exact position of a theoretical t-shirt line, based on a guess where it would be on Podence's arm.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and this is where i find the criticism of Coote a little odd, it's a technician that draws that line isn't it? Not the ref? So to me it's a glorified CAD technician who makes the call? Not the VAR/Coote?
 
Last night you told me to read the rules. This is copied from the FA file book for season 2020 to 2021. A
player is in an offside position if:
  • any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
  • any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
  • The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
  • second-last opponent or
  • last two opponents I don’t want to keep saying it as it’s pulling teeth but they have not put anything in the RULE about the shirt tip only in the guidsnce issued to referees for consistency in the interpretation. Hence why I keep correcting you unless you can show me the tile with the new insert as I can’t find it anywhere
 
In England, PGMOL guidance overrules IFAB rules which have always since forever had different tolerances in different countries.

It is nonsense, you're right to say that.
 
The Bear said:
Just look at Podence's left arm in yesterday's still frame. It's not side on, it's pointing down and away. So you're relying on depth perception on a 2D image to decide the exact position of a theoretical t-shirt line, based on a guess where it would be on Podence's arm.
Click to expand...
It’s not 2D though. It’s a 3D calibration across all the cameras. The line positions are “bang on”. Yes the frame Choice there is margin for error, but on the frame they use the lines are as accurate as possible to the nearest pixel. It’s bollocks I know but that’s just how it is.
Cyber said:
Last night you told me to read the rules. This is copied from the FA file book for season 2020 to 2021. A
player is in an offside position if:
  • any part of the head, body or feet is in the opponents’ half (excluding the halfway line) and
  • any part of the head, body or feet is nearer to the opponents’ goal line than both the ball and the second-last opponent
  • The hands and arms of all players, including the goalkeepers, are not considered.
A player is not in an offside position if level with the:
  • second-last opponent or
  • last two opponents I don’t want to keep saying it as it’s pulling teeth but they have not put anything in the RULE about the shirt tip only in the guidsnce issued to referees for consistency in the interpretation. Hence why I keep correcting you unless you can show me the tile with the new insert as I can’t find it anywhere
Click to expand...
The upper arm is considered part of the “body”. You may think they are just making it up to piss us and are using their own Willy nilly interpretation. They are not...
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
In England, PGMOL guidance overrules IFAB rules which have always since forever had different tolerances in different countries.

It is nonsense, you're right to say that.
Click to expand...
Thank you!

so I am right. It’s GUIDELINES that are the issue not a RULE
 
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