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Live Match Discussion 2017/18

Better coached, playing in a better system, played in a position that plays to their strengths, and also surrounded by mostly better players. When I watch Sterling for England they play him mostly on the left and ask him to go down the outside of the full back. It's madness. Alli looks unsure of the system himself. Kane always looks sluggish too. The forward line we have is one of the best in europe I would say potentially. Most exciting for their clubs for sure.

Spot on YW. When I watch City, the fluidity from their front players and the angles they run off the ball is frightening. Like watching chaos theory in action. When I watch England it's like watching table football in action. Everybody in straight lines, easy to see and just as easy to mark, it's embarrassing we can put the technical players we have into a system so basic an U12 team would be embarrassed to play it.
 
Spot on YW. When I watch City, the fluidity from their front players and the angles they run off the ball is frightening. Like watching chaos theory in action. When I watch England it's like watching table football in action. Everybody in straight lines, easy to see and just as easy to mark, it's embarrassing we can put the technical players we have into a system so basic an U12 team would be embarrassed to play it.

Think it highlights a weakness in the players themselves too though.

They get this coaching at their clubs and play in this way but then go into the international side and are unable to carry any of it across with them, it's like they're all robots that do exactly as they're told without having the capacity to think for themselves. You'd think after spending time under these coaches at club level that they'd start to engage their brains a little more, not be so reliant on what they're being told and be able to think for themselves, so even with a dullard like Southgate lining them up there'd still be enough individual though out on the pitch to create some decent football. It just doesn't seem to happen though, they just do as they're told.

I was reading something the other day about de Bruyne, was from an interview with another Belgian footballer who'd played with him years ago I think, he said how even as a young kid playing at Genk that KdB would frequently get into arguments with more senior players or coaches because he had his own ideas and if he was asked to do something differently that he thought was wrong then he'd challenge it. Whilst you don't want to see some Redknapp style shit where the manager contributes nothing and the players do whatever they like I think it's important that players do have the capacity and scope to do their own thing within any tactical system, at the moment with the England side I don't think there's much capacity in the players to do much thinking themselves nor much scope of them to do so in Southgate's dull fest setup.

Technique has been the big buzzword for the last few years but I've always felt intelligence is just as, if not more so, important yet it still seems criminally neglected in a lot of cases, so many players are still heavily dependent on instruction rather than developing their own understanding and ideas.
 
Spot on YW. When I watch City, the fluidity from their front players and the angles they run off the ball is frightening. Like watching chaos theory in action. When I watch England it's like watching table football in action. Everybody in straight lines, easy to see and just as easy to mark, it's embarrassing we can put the technical players we have into a system so basic an U12 team would be embarrassed to play it.

Its not as though Southgate hasn't got the opportunity to improve himself and his coaches. Instead of watching football matches up and down the country go and watch Man City training for six months. Watch and film Peps coaching sessions, then go away and work it out how you pass and move within a cohesive framework.
 
I don’t think you can just blame the manager, players have their own minds surely they can work out a way to play together on the pitch rather than blindly following instructions that clearly aren’t working? I’m not saying that it wouldn’t help to have someone competent in charge but there still shouldn’t be such a difference in their performance. Been happening for years though, Scholes, Lampard, Gerrard etc. Never looked as good for England
 
Think it highlights a weakness in the players themselves too though.

They get this coaching at their clubs and play in this way but then go into the international side and are unable to carry any of it across with them, it's like they're all robots that do exactly as they're told without having the capacity to think for themselves. You'd think after spending time under these coaches at club level that they'd start to engage their brains a little more, not be so reliant on what they're being told and be able to think for themselves, so even with a dullard like Southgate lining them up there'd still be enough individual though out on the pitch to create some decent football. It just doesn't seem to happen though, they just do as they're told.

I was reading something the other day about de Bruyne, was from an interview with another Belgian footballer who'd played with him years ago I think, he said how even as a young kid playing at Genk that KdB would frequently get into arguments with more senior players or coaches because he had his own ideas and if he was asked to do something differently that he thought was wrong then he'd challenge it. Whilst you don't want to see some Redknapp style shit where the manager contributes nothing and the players do whatever they like I think it's important that players do have the capacity and scope to do their own thing within any tactical system, at the moment with the England side I don't think there's much capacity in the players to do much thinking themselves nor much scope of them to do so in Southgate's dull fest setup.

Technique has been the big buzzword for the last few years but I've always felt intelligence is just as, if not more so, important yet it still seems criminally neglected in a lot of cases, so many players are still heavily dependent on instruction rather than developing their own understanding and ideas.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that Mark and I think you're spot on with the intelligence aspect. They are clearly following Southgate's (and others) coaching to the letter and it isn't really working. You do need the visionaries and free thinkers and I don't think we have many in our game and I think the last one we did have we couldn't get the best out of and that was Scholes.

You do wonder why at senior international level we can't accommodate a top class play-maker and get the best out of them. I think there's only Spain and Germany that do get the best out of their players at that level and maybe highlights the dearth of managerial talent at International level.

You've also hit on the playmaker argument in English football where the big sides do not have English play-makers in their teams anymore. The creative players are in the main foreign and that's a shame. City have De Bruyne, Chelsea - Hazard/ Fabregas, Arsenal - Ozil, Utd - Matic.
 
I wouldn't disagree with any of that Mark and I think you're spot on with the intelligence aspect. They are clearly following Southgate's (and others) coaching to the letter and it isn't really working. You do need the visionaries and free thinkers and I don't think we have many in our game and I think the last one we did have we couldn't get the best out of and that was Scholes.

You do wonder why at senior international level we can't accommodate a top class play-maker and get the best out of them. I think there's only Spain and Germany that do get the best out of their players at that level and maybe highlights the dearth of managerial talent at International level.

You've also hit on the playmaker argument in English football where the big sides do not have English play-makers in their teams anymore. The creative players are in the main foreign and that's a shame. City have De Bruyne, Chelsea - Hazard/ Fabregas, Arsenal - Ozil, Utd - Matic.

I'm struggling think who we've got that would actually fit that role?

Wilshere maybe when he's not broken, probably the most consistent in terms of his ability when he's available but other than that I'm struggling to think of options. Don't think Alli is really that player, he's more likely to be finishing stuff off rather than creating for others, Barkley isn't good enough to build a team around him that covers for his flaws, think Lallana has probably been the best option in recent years for playing in that space between the midfield and forwards but he's not really going to dictate the whole game from there so you'd still need a bit more from the deeper midfield position that is currently on offer from Henderson, Dier, et al.
 
I'm struggling think who we've got that would actually fit that role?

Wilshere maybe when he's not broken, probably the most consistent in terms of his ability when he's available but other than that I'm struggling to think of options. Don't think Alli is really that player, he's more likely to be finishing stuff off rather than creating for others, Barkley isn't good enough to build a team around him that covers for his flaws, think Lallana has probably been the best option in recent years for playing in that space between the midfield and forwards but he's not really going to dictate the whole game from there so you'd still need a bit more from the deeper midfield position that is currently on offer from Henderson, Dier, et al.

I like Winks (I know others have their reservations) and think he could be that player given the role. I think Barkley has the potential and the intelligence, he just needs guidance.
 
There must be English players out there with under developed skill sets just waiting for good guidance. Bit like Conor Coady at Wolves now showing the ability to knock a consistently accurate 40 yard diagonal ball at the appropriate moment.
 
Regarding intelligence, I would say this is the biggest aspect that has improved in recent years. So we aren't seeing as much of t in the senior team (although I think in alli we have an incredibly intelligent footballer), in the coming years there are many players who fit that criteria. In coach education it's been more about creating good decision makers than anything else for a while now
 
Jack Wilshere has to be in the England squad, I know it's only the Europa league, but he is everywhere - showing great passing and running with the ball and good tackling too. Ridiculous to think we will be watching Jordan Helderson instead
 
Early kick off team news.

Bristol City.
Fielding, Flint, Baker, Magnusson, O'Dowda, Brownhill, Smith, Pack, Bryan, Djuric, Reid.
 
HT..1-1.

Both teams poor at the back, Bobby Reid the best player on the pitch.
 
Villa behind in the first minute.

Come on Hull, beat Sheffield United and it becomes a pretty perfect weekend.
 
Villa 2 down and Terry off injured. Excellent news for us.

Derby being spanked by Reading as well.
 
Villa 2-0 down now. Terry off injured and Samba on... Samba comes on and immediately 2-0 oops.
 
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