January 2021 Transfer Window

[prawnking]

Why does everyone make out that Romain Saiss and Willy Boly are championship cloggers. Teams have been playing 4 at the back with success for decades with worse players at their disposal.

Depends on how you define 'success'. We're surely looking for a centre-back partnership that gets us back to challenging for a EL spot again, and maybe more eventually.

You put words into my mouth a little there; I didn't say they were championship cloggers, far from it. They're decent PL players (Boly more than decent), but we're talking about them being successful in a different set-up. I just said the jury is out. We've mainly seen all our centre-backs in a 3 before now, and the evidence in a 2 so far has been inconclusive at best.

 

[Langers]

You realise you’re not logged in as Prawnking?

Joke or not, this isn't helpful - we've been trying to curtail the personal attacks recently because it doesn't make this place particularly fun to read.

 

[Johnny75]

Thought I might get picked up on. Seems others can say what they want eh?

 

[Langers]

Well - no, not if the posting style isn't acceptable.

But we're only human and we're trying to pull people up on things as and when we see them. When they're pointed out to us via the report function as some posts are, that helps but right now, this is happening a lot and several posters are guilty of it.

It's like spinning plates - if everyone would refrain from the digs at others who they disagree with, it would make our jobs much easier.

What I do know because its been pointed out to me is that the jibes that occur every hour on here and the subsequent spats is putting people off reading and/or posting which obviously we don't want.

Wolves actually winning would probably help too TBH.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Maybe if people didn't post stuff in the guise of an utter arsehole then others wouldn't have a go at them. Just a thought.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Depends on how you define 'success'. We're surely looking for a centre-back partnership that gets us back to challenging for a EL spot again, and maybe more eventually.

You put words into my mouth a little there; I didn't say they were championship cloggers, far from it. They're decent PL players (Boly more than decent), but we're talking about them being successful in a different set-up. I just said the jury is out. We've mainly seen all our centre-backs in a 3 before now, and the evidence in a 2 so far has been inconclusive at best.

It’s nothing to do with the 5 or the 4 though. This is my point.

Would they get into any top 6 team? Of course they wouldn’t, but that doesn’t mean they can only play in a 5.

I didn’t put words in your mouth at all. You said (and plenty others as well, it was more using your point to discuss what everyone is saying), that you don’t think they are good enough to play in a 4. I simply don’t agree and I’ve put tons of evidence to support my view.

People are just being lazy saying 5 is going to save us, when in reality it won’t stop us giving away nothing penalties and conceding from set pieces.

Brighton’s first goal is probably the only goal I could say a back 5 may have helped in the last couple of months. But if players aren’t going to stop crosses or mark people then it would make no difference anyway.

 

[Tredman]

Neither Boly nor Saiss have the concentration or focus to be successful in a 4, part of the reason a 5 (or 3 imo) worked so well for us is that it used the strengths of Coady, Boly & Saiss/Bennet and negated their weaknesses. Just because we have decided 4 at the back is better doesn't mean that these weaknesses have gone away..

 

[Tony Towner]

Can't prove it definitively but i don't think Albion would have got their second penalty in a back 5 as in all likelihood Coady wouldn't have been the man picking up their one forward. I think Saiss or Boly could play in a 4, but not alongside anyone else we have or each other

 

[Langers]

Maybe if people didn't post stuff in the guise of an utter arsehole then others wouldn't have a go at them. Just a thought.

This place is becoming increasingly difficult to moderate. Just be nice to each other. It's not difficult.

 

[Throbber3]

I think Wily Boly could be fine in a four. Kilman has little pace , Saiss and Coady are better in a 3. With the personnel we have then a 3 seems to fit better.

 

[Tony Towner]

This place is becoming increasingly difficult to moderate. Just be nice to each other. It's not difficult.

FWIW the forum has always had the odd individual who either deliberately wums or posts in a hyperbolic style and has been shut down. That can be taken as a compliment or an insult depending on viewpoint. I'm not a fan of everyone agreeing with each other, but I think it's only fair that if someone has a controversial opinion they are challenged to provide evidence to support it. Invariably that's when it can get a bit playground. I do think there are a couple of posters who are probably over challenged which can result in a bit of a pile on, but them playing the victim doesn't help either.

I guess it goes back to what you want the forum to be. It was set up to be an alternative to the more knee jeek place most of us came from, if you want to scream 'we're doomed' there are options out there where the majority response will be 'I know' and you can discuss the number of ways we are. This place probably isn't for you though, but in doing so will limit the number of posters and invite the clique accusations again.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Can't prove it definitively but i don't think Albion would have got their second penalty in a back 5 as in all likelihood Coady wouldn't have been the man picking up their one forward. I think Saiss or Boly could play in a 4, but not alongside anyone else we have or each other

You say this a lot but I just don’t agree. If the forward is playing down the middle or chooses to pin Coady (Abraham, Mitrovic, Giroud) then he has to be the one marking him. If the forward drifts into channels or wider then yes he can pass him on. If one of the CBs has to be standing so central so that Coady is always “free” then there is a chasm of space down the side to exploit.

Neither Boly nor Saiss have the concentration or focus to be successful in a 4, part of the reason a 5 (or 3 imo) worked so well for us is that it used the strengths of Coady, Boly & Saiss/Bennet and negated their weaknesses. Just because we have decided 4 at the back is better doesn't mean that these weaknesses have gone away..

I would Agree that they both lack concentration. But this is a prerequisite for a defender full stop. The point that they lack concentration just means they aren’t great defenders and you will concede goals whether your in a 4 or 5 (countless examples in a 5 where these things happened).

As is said, Saiss didn’t mark Connolly for Brighton’s goal and lost concentration (and Coady didn’t tell him either), but when is another example of Saiss or Boly losing concentration this season?

 

[prawnking]

Maybe if people didn't post stuff in the guise of an utter arsehole then others wouldn't have a go at them. Just a thought.

Is this aimed at me? I hope not and I've misread this, but if so I'd love some examples

 

[Tony Towner]

You say this a lot but I just don’t agree. If the forward is playing down the middle or chooses to pin Coady (Abraham, Mitrovic, Giroud) then he has to be the one marking him. If the forward drifts into channels or wider then yes he can pass him on. If one of the CBs has to be standing so central so that Coady is always “free” then there is a chasm of space down the side to exploit.

It's difficult to debate hypotheticals, but they weren't playing like the examples you gave or like Antonio earlier this season where he was outmuscled him. Neither were they doing so with other forwards in support so I think it's perfectively feasible in a 3 that it's not Coady picking him up or if he is the space isn't there to pass the ball through. None of which defends the challenge itself

 

[prawnking]

Thought I might get picked up on. Seems others can say what they want eh?

Sounds remarkably like you're being the victim here. It's so convenient to play the innocent and make out that it's four or five posters ruining the utopia, isn't it?

I'm happy to have a disagreement with anyone, but yesterday you name checked me twice in cold blood, when I wasn't even in the conversation. What's the point?

People say things in the heat of the moment, but you're not, you're just goading to get a reaction then join in with the victims (again, yep, we have them on both sides) saying 'there's too much conflict' and 'why can't we talk about football' ! Utterly hypocritical.

Some people think that restraint and responsibility are only for others.

 

[Tredman]

Could we talk about football?

 

[prawnking]

I didn’t put words in your mouth at all. You said (and plenty others as well, it was more using your point to discuss what everyone is saying), that you don’t think they are good enough to play in a 4. I simply don’t agree and I’ve put tons of evidence to support my view.

Tbf, I did say 'the jury is out' on our CBs in a four, rather than they aren't good enough. The discussion was about suitability of players in different systems and I don't think there's enough evidence yet, but the results are suddenly a bit ropey.

I'm certainly not against playing a 4, and don't think 5 is necessarily the answer anymore. I think it gives us more offensively, not sure we have the players and combinations yet to make them count though.

I'd like to see Coady and Boly as the 2 for a decent run for sure

 

[prawnking]

Could we talk about football?

Why put that post after mine rather than after Johnny or Deutsch's? You can make a football comment yourself any time you like

 

[Johnny75]

Can't prove it definitively but i don't think Albion would have got their second penalty in a back 5 as in all likelihood Coady wouldn't have been the man picking up their one forward. I think Saiss or Boly could play in a 4, but not alongside anyone else we have or each other

I think Robinson deliberately played on Coady knowing he's not the most mobile.

You might be right in that he drops back more in a 5 but I'm not so sure on Saturday that it wasn't just a defensive mess where that's an individual error from Coady who is usually much better than that.

 

[Paul]

. I'm not a fan of everyone agreeing with each other,

That's lucky for you isn't it