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Israel-Palestine

Templeton Peck said:
Yep. Loads of us like to think we're immune but we're not. If something fits your views you're far more likely to believe it. Beheaded babies was a hugely emotive lie designed to create some level of approval for the horror that followed. I was getting into arguments on here for just wanting the story confirmed ffs. Scary.
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It was confirmed by the POTUS. Incorrectly, but still confirmed supposedly from their own intelligence
 
Double Down News is, and always has been, excellent for reporting the things that don't get reported. That report essentially confirms what several people on here said from the very start of this genocide, but mostly got derided for saying.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Not at all. However i am open to changing my opinion when something comes along to make me question/doubt it.
Perhaps the situation is that knowing (if they did) of hamas plans for nov 7th, israel thought, ok enough of living under rocket attacks etc, do this and we'll really put you out of business.
However, much as i despise both Netanyahu the man and Hamas the organisation, Oct 7th happened.
It was well planned, organised and trained for, and wether you believe all the propoganda about babies burned etc, it was horrific.
Hamas are supposed to be the leaders of the palestinians, but what did they achieve for them, other than a humanitarian catastrophe.

I can only assume that from a Hamas point of view, they knew what would happen and were always looking at the long game, to get hezbolah etc involved and finally wipe israel off the map.
But it is a personal assumption, and it was a personal questioning of myself with regard to israeli thoughts pre Oct 7th.
But, From Iran, to Hamas to Hezbolah the Houthis, et al, one fact is there are people out there who's sole ambition in life, is to wipe Israel and all jews off the face of the earth, another holocaust if you will,and that i cannot and will not except, ever.
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Your last paragraph comes back to the point that was made at the very end of that video: do you think the Palestinians wouldn't be fighting the occupation if it was Italy or Greece that were the occupiers?

They aren't fighting Israel or Jews, they are fighting the oppressors. There is no 'they want to wipe Jews off the map', there is simply 'we want to wipe our oppressors off the map'. Fundamental difference.
 
Dire Wolf said:
Your last paragraph comes back to the point that was made at the very end of that video: do you think the Palestinians wouldn't be fighting the occupation if it was Italy or Greece that were the occupiers?

They aren't fighting Israel or Jews, they are fighting the oppressors. There is no 'they want to wipe Jews off the map', there is simply 'we want to wipe our oppressors off the map'. Fundamental difference.
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Indeed, wanting to stop Zionism and the (illegal) occupation of 'their lands' doesn't mean wiping all Jews from the face of the earth.
 
I'd fill your car up today if you can. If Iran kick-off then oil is only going to go one way.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Not at all. However i am open to changing my opinion when something comes along to make me question/doubt it.
Perhaps the situation is that knowing (if they did) of hamas plans for nov 7th, israel thought, ok enough of living under rocket attacks etc, do this and we'll really put you out of business.
However, much as i despise both Netanyahu the man and Hamas the organisation, Oct 7th happened.
It was well planned, organised and trained for, and wether you believe all the propoganda about babies burned etc, it was horrific.
Hamas are supposed to be the leaders of the palestinians, but what did they achieve for them, other than a humanitarian catastrophe.

I can only assume that from a Hamas point of view, they knew what would happen and were always looking at the long game, to get hezbolah etc involved and finally wipe israel off the map.
But it is a personal assumption, and it was a personal questioning of myself with regard to israeli thoughts pre Oct 7th.
But, From Iran, to Hamas to Hezbolah the Houthis, et al, one fact is there are people out there who's sole ambition in life, is to wipe Israel and all jews off the face of the earth, another holocaust if you will,and that i cannot and will not except, ever.
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Hey pavlovsmacwolf. I appreciate you making these points this way. Have you considered that the current phase of events actually started with the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1917 and the introduction of the British Mandate? I am not shouting at you and others about this but IMHO it can be argued that the ongoing Palestinian holocaust had its roots established over a hundred years ago with the British facilitation of Zionism, and it continues today.
 
Wellen Wolf said:
Hey pavlovsmacwolf. I appreciate you making these points this way. Have you considered that the current phase of events actually started with the fall of the Ottoman Empire in 1917 and the introduction of the British Mandate? I am not shouting at you and others about this but IMHO it can be argued that the ongoing Palestinian holocaust had its roots established over a hundred years ago with the British facilitation of Zionism, and it continues today.
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I know very little about the history of all of this and don't mind saying im too disinterested to investigate further but my father would have always said that the U.S. and the 'Suez Crisis' was the main cause of a lot of the modern day 'problems' along with Israeli terrorists ie Menachem Begin.
'Its ok when we do it'?
 
Wolftone said:
I know very little about the history of all of this and don't mind saying im too disinterested to investigate further but my father would have always said that the U.S. and the 'Suez Crisis' was the main cause of a lot of the modern day 'problems' along with Israeli terrorists ie Menachem Begin.
'Its ok when we do it'?
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I recommend that if people have some time they read up on the history of Iran. A lovely combination of colonialism, royalty, oil companies and revolutionary religious zeal have all combined to produce a right bloody mess.
 
Looking at anything in that disputed land from 1917 onwards is too narrow. You need to go back to before the crusades.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Looking at anything in that disputed land from 1917 onwards is too narrow. You need to go back to before the crusades.
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Blimey. Too much for me that. I dunno even know when the crusades happened. I'm going to guess 14th century 😬. If you told me I was 200 years out either way id take your word for it. I should look it up really I suppose. Genuinely not being facetious here.
 
Just googled the crusades. 12th century so I was only about 250 years out. Christians trying to stop the spread of Islam. A thousand years later..
 
Some more root causes probably lie in the break up of the Roman Empire into West (which sort of dissipated into seperate countries) and east which grew into the Byzantine empire. Some bloody fascinating history about for the period where we were bumming around in the dark ages.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Some more root causes probably lie in the break up of the Roman Empire into West (which sort of dissipated into seperate countries) and east which grew into the Byzantine empire. Some bloody fascinating history about for the period where we were bumming around in the dark ages.
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A bit before that possibly. There was the Babylonian Exile in 587 BC (I had to look up the exact date) which is referenced in psalm 137 (popularised by Boney M!). The Babylonians forcefully detained Jews who were later allowed to return to Judeah by the Persian Cyrus the Great some 30 or so years later.
 
Tbh I think the whole "if you go back x years it belonged to x" really, really trivialises (and to an extent tries to legitimise) what Palestinian are going through *now* and have been in recent decades. I know it's not the intention here, but still
 
Del Woppio said:
Tbh I think the whole "if you go back x years it belonged to x" really, really trivialises (and to an extent tries to legitimise) what Palestinian are going through *now* and have been in recent decades. I know it's not the intention here, but still
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Whoa, no way am I trivialising or legitimising what is happening today and I resent any assumption that I am. It's the political Zionism by Israel that has perpetuated the systematic dismantling of 'present day Palestine'.
 
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