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How long has Corbyn got left?

I really don't want a Tory government. I also don't really want a traditional Labour Government. It's unlikely there would ever be a centrist Tory party, but there has been a centrist Labour party. In the absence of what I would really like being elected, I will back a centrist Labour party, and would hope that they will go in that direction...
 
So let them vote for a more 'palatable' alternative then. Who might that be? Why should I compromise my ideology?

A great point. Blair was never a lefty but thanks to our electoral system he needed the Labour 'brand' to get elected. Blairs time was an aberration but many now seem to think that Labour exists only to be hijacked by a 'palatable' alternative. Other political parties are available.
 
Very difficult for any version of Labour to win an election without resolving the Scottish problem and a centre left Labour Party is no more likely to solve it.
 
Very difficult for any version of Labour to win an election without resolving the Scottish problem and a centre left Labour Party is no more likely to solve it.

This is a very big point.

Without getting Scottish seats back, Labour is going to struggle because of the electoral boundaries elsewhere. Unless they are propped up by the SNP. And then you have to ask what would have to be given to the SNP to get that support.

However, Labour being a bit more near the centre might well get chunks of the midlands back at least. Bolsover being a non-labour seat is a total head-fry. First step is to re-build the red wall from here and heading north. Trying to win seats in somewhere like Buckinghamshire would be pointless. They weigh the Conservative vote to save time.
 
If only PR...
But the Tory turkeys ain't gonna vote for Christmas...
 
My quarterly opportunity to say if you wanted meaningful PR then that was sold away by Clegg's power hunger, along with tuition fees.
 
Oh absolutely. I don't expect it anytime if ever.
Still a better system. I get bored walking into a polling station knowing my vote means shit, even voting for a party I don't want. Will still always vote though.
 
This is a very big point.

Without getting Scottish seats back, Labour is going to struggle because of the electoral boundaries elsewhere. Unless they are propped up by the SNP. And then you have to ask what would have to be given to the SNP to get that support.

However, Labour being a bit more near the centre might well get chunks of the midlands back at least. Bolsover being a non-labour seat is a total head-fry. First step is to re-build the red wall from here and heading north. Trying to win seats in somewhere like Buckinghamshire would be pointless. They weigh the Conservative vote to save time.

2017 is probably about as good as it gets for Labour without Scotland. Maybe a handful more English seats were possible but nothing significant enough to counter the loss of Scottish seats. Everyone refers back to 1997 as evidence that this centre left approach is the only way Labour can win an election but this was an aberration, Labour don’t tend to win the majority of seats in England and there were other factors that contributed as much if not more to that election victory...it came on the back of a Tory government mired in sleaze and a favourable media to Labour.
 
Everyone refers back to 1997 as evidence that this centre left approach is the only way Labour can win an election...it came on the back of a Tory government mired in sleaze and a favourable media to Labour.

I'd suggest the first part of the quote and the last part are connected.

People are as heavily influenced by the media now as they have ever been, probably more so. It is more social media soundbites than the written press, but is as important as ever

Take Corbyn as an example. He is an IRA sympathiser, that's not me saying that it's popularly held fact, irrespective of the nuances of the real facts. Labour won't be elected again with a media which is hostile to them. A centre left platform is the only way that'll happen imo. Major wouldn't have been climbed into on the hypocrisy of Back to Basics if Blair hadn't been there as the alternative, in the same way Johnson gets a free ride now, despite his invisibility and handing the running of Government over to a crank and employing a Home Secretary who doesn't understand what counter terrorism is.
 
From an outsiders point of view the problem with the Labour electorate is that if they dismiss Blair from history there seems to be no frame of reference to elude to a better option, there is no way this government should have ever been re elected on past, present or future ideologies but you cant convince otherwise, to keep harping on that Labour invented the health service is about as relevant to the modern generation as Karl Benz inventing the motor car why do we all not drive Mercedes ?
The media although relevant are the excuse after the fact and was the mantra of the Labour supporters on Facebook, who do actually come across as a pitchfork wielding mob that think Viz is a Tory troll and JC is the greatest prime minister we never had !
 
This is a very big point.

Without getting Scottish seats back, Labour is going to struggle because of the electoral boundaries elsewhere. Unless they are propped up by the SNP. And then you have to ask what would have to be given to the SNP to get that support.

However, Labour being a bit more near the centre might well get chunks of the midlands back at least. Bolsover being a non-labour seat is a total head-fry. First step is to re-build the red wall from here and heading north. Trying to win seats in somewhere like Buckinghamshire would be pointless. They weigh the Conservative vote to save time.

You say this, but it doesn't seem the case any more. The long-term trends in voting share (as in, over the last 10-15 years) have seen lots of the commuter towns around big cities - including in the home counties - becoming more and more yellow and/or red. Places like Guildford and High Wycombe, which are increasingly less populated by older social conservatives and more and more populated by liberal or left-wing younger families from the urban centres who have moved out to find more space. The inverse, in other words, of what's happened to so many northern towns in the ageing towns of the "red wall". Focusing on socially conservative retirees in the short term has won an election, but it's alarmed a lot of people who were brought into the party (either for the first time, or switching back from New Labour) during the Cameron years. It might not mean big Labour gains are coming, but on current trajectory places like Buckinghamshire look like new Lib Dem heartlands in the making.

2019 was a weird election, because while it was a terrible loss for Labour, it wasn't a landslide win for the Tories, and they still have a historically unpopular leader themselves. They have a healthy, but modest, majority, but they needed a massive popular vote lead to get it, and that was predicated on: 1) The most unpopular opposition leader as the alternative, and 2) The one-shot coalition-builder that was "Get Brexit Done" bringing plenty of people from across the spectrum who otherwise wouldn't have touched the Tories with a barge pole. I think without Scotland being in play for either Labour or Tories for the foreseeable, it makes it both easy to see how the Tories could lose their majority while winning the popular vote (again), and how Labour could well win the popular vote in the next election but struggle to ever get a working majority without some fundamental re-alignment similar to what we've seen in the red wall.

(For what it's worth, if I had to make a wild and probably inaccurate prediction now, I think that the big change over the next decade is rural seats coming into play. The south-west is mostly Tory now ofc, but it's been intriguing to see how, now that the Lib Dem hegemony there has been broken, a lot of those seats now look like Tory/Labour marginals rather than Tory/Lib Dem. Environmental policy is going to become incredibly important as climate change gets worse, and one thing Labour has put a lot of work into is how to reshape the economy in ways that are going to protect the landscape and environment... there's an opportunity there for a canny leader to actually try and make inroads among a lot of rural and agricultural communities, which are pretty much ignored completely in the national conversation except for when fox hunting's back in the news.)
 
Didn't like the AusterityLite platform of Miliband and Balls (I actually quite liked both of them on a personal level).

Could never get on board with JCorbz.

You're mentioning individuals though. I agree about Milliband/Balls and the policy, but to not vote Labour because of Corbyn? The policies were generally sound.

Sorry , a bit late to the party on this one.

As you know I was originally a social democratic as in the 1980s incarnation. I am pretty sure I voted blair in 97 and against my better judgement, Kinnock in 92. I have also voted for anti europe parties this century as stance of pro brexit grew stronger and stronger post 2004-6.

The thing is that of the people I know in this area who consider themselves labour very few of the people who support labour are actually left wing. They are Tories with a conscience and a bit of social awareness that makes them keen to keep things they see of benefit. They support workers rights , the right to strike but not take the piss.They were also the ones in middle England who bought shares in BT and water companies in the 80s and part of the reason I believe is because we had witnessed a winter of discontent under labour then a miners strike that was supported by the labour leadership and more vocal parts of the party. In my experience , and I am only speaking from the experience in a quite narrow area. They , however cant get behind Corbyn. Dont trust Abbott not to make mistakes and thought Milliband was a wet weekend. Now I suspect there are millions of others who are/were similar , hence why it was called New Labour. Returning to old Labour has proved about as successful as us hiring Saunders! Blair knew what he had to do to be elected and if that meant we had a pink tory in power it still had far more social conscience and emphasis on public service than the current bunch of tories being tory.

I know that is completely simplistic but it explains to me why liberals and labour have these peaks and troughs on performance in elections and when it comes to local elections people are more likely to give them a shot..
 
London Metropolitan Police opened an investigation in 45 alleged anti-semites in the UK Labour Party after being handed a bumper dossier of evidence purporting to prove the allegations. The police investigated for 2 years & have decided just 1 of those 45 warrants a prosecution.
 
They weren't able to prosecute some of those because it was deemed to have happened too long ago in the past, while in others it was the distinction between "what is merely offensive or hurtful and what constitutes a criminal offence".
 
"no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party" Commons inquiry 2016.

We'll see how many people still give a shit about anti-semitism when Starmer takes over.
 
If Labour are happy to have as many bigots and racists as the Tories then yeah, I guess its fine....
 
"no reliable, empirical evidence to support the notion that there is a higher prevalence of antisemitic attitudes within the Labour Party than any other political party" Commons inquiry 2016.

We'll see how many people still give a shit about anti-semitism when Starmer takes over.

Yeah, nobody cares, it's all propaganda against the saviour Jezza.
 
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