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Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

richard tice reported to use dodgy tactics to aggressively avoid tax payments, and his response is to encourage everyone to do all they can to avoid paying income tax,
 
Not sure what the tactics amount to and what makes them dodgy but surely everyone’s trying to avoid tax payments, or certainly minimise them as much as legally possible? I mean, that’s the driver behind a lot of things, a lot of the big decisions we make. Pretty sure much of the advice in Andy’s Financial Literacy thread would be underpinned by tax avoidance.

Tax evasion is a different thing of course, but presumably Tice isn’t being accused of that?
 
If it wasn't for rich people doing shit like that - and obviously there's a lot richer avoided a lot more - then we wouldn't have had frozen tax thresholds for so long. Ordinary people don't have the opportunity to move their salary through dormant Cayman Islands businesses to minimise the tax paid.
 
No doubt about that but still think most would in the same position.

Tax evasion is a way of life amongst many people, communities, a way of life in many countries, and not just amongst the rich, just seems to be the way it is unfortunately
 
Surely the reason why tax avoidance strategies are legal is because they are a net benefit to the economy?
 
If that’s not the case. Why are they legal?

(For the avoidance of doubt I was referring to pensions, EIS, VCTs etc rather than shifting money to Cayman Isles - I wasn’t aware that was actually “legal”).
 
PuntsWolf said:
If that’s not the case. Why are they legal?

(For the avoidance of doubt I was referring to pensions, EIS, VCTs etc rather than shifting money to Cayman Isles - I wasn’t aware that was actually “legal”).
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There’s nothing illegal in having an offshore account.

Essentially, you have to declare your offshore income/assets etc to HMRC, however, HMRC can’t access those accounts. Therefore, if you’re prepared to gamble they never will then that’s the appeal.

Anyone can have one and tbh I’d have one in a heartbeat if it stacked up, but I wouldn’t take the gamble outlined and any investment returns are at rates not to make much of a difference - not as far as I can see at fairly normal investment levels at least.

I’d imagine a different world of opportunity and returns opens up to those with huge portfolios and it’s probably only those and the evaders who really get into it.
 
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lemonjelly said:
Perhaps it is the rank hypocrisy.
I mean, it's just possible that the country & it's services are bankrupt owing to immigrants.
Or, because of rich cunts like him aggressively avoiding paying the contributions they are due to make & can very easily afford.
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The subject is riddled with hypocrisy. Rich people get the finger pointed for obvious reasons but there’s very few who aren’t at it in some way or who would if they had the opportunity. Tradespeople using cash for evasion or people buying expensive EV’s for tax avoidance who’d be driving a diesel in a heartbeat if they were suddenly tax advantageous are two very simple examples, one legal, one not so.

Coincidentally had my Make Tax Digital email from HMRC last week. It’s being phased in through different qualifying criteria over the next three years and tells you where you in in that programme and what action is required immediately.

FWIW I’m 100% behind it. The ‘protect cash’ conspiracy theorists who shout the loudest are the biggest hypocrites of all who know they’re going to get roasted big time and find evasion a whole lot tougher. The avoiders will all continue to work to avoid to the best of their abilities but it’s the evaders are shitting themselves and rightly so.
 
PuntsWolf said:
If that’s not the case. Why are they legal?

(For the avoidance of doubt I was referring to pensions, EIS, VCTs etc rather than shifting money to Cayman Isles - I wasn’t aware that was actually “legal”).
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Grey areas depending on how the schemes are used. They're legal because they have a legitimate purpose in certain circumstances. It's when they're used outside of that circumstance / purpose that it becomes questionable. But it's difficult to truly determine peoples' motives.

Tice's example: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...imum-tax-legally-possible-richard-tice-reform

To me that seems outside what is appropriate, but it stands as "legal" because the scheme exists because it is appropriate at some other situation.
 
Two things

1) TAX AVOIDANCE IS PERFECTLY LEGAL AND FINE. I spent years working on schemes to help the rich and not so rich with this sort of thing. TAX EVASION is a completely different beast, and people conflating the two is just an exercise in muddying the waters and helping absolutely fucking no-one. If you want to moan about tax avoidance, moan at the successive governments of the last 50 years who have left loopholes open for schemes to exploit. Don't moan at people either designing the schemes or benefiting from them. Plus if you clamp down on everything, you end up making things like SAYE and Profit-sharing that benefit across an entire workforce less tax efficient just as much as you attack offshore stuff for the hyper rich.

2) NONE OF THE ABOVE CHANGES THE FACT TICE IS A COMPLETE THUNDERCUNT
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Two things

1) TAX AVOIDANCE IS PERFECTLY LEGAL AND FINE. I spent years working on schemes to help the rich and not so rich with this sort of thing. TAX EVASION is a completely different beast, and people conflating the two is just an exercise in muddying the waters and helping absolutely fucking no-one. If you want to moan about tax avoidance, moan at the successive governments of the last 50 years who have left loopholes open for schemes to exploit. Don't moan at people either designing the schemes or benefiting from them. Plus if you clamp down on everything, you end up making things like SAYE and Profit-sharing that benefit across an entire workforce less tax efficient just as much as you attack offshore stuff for the hyper rich.

2) NONE OF THE ABOVE CHANGES THE FACT TICE IS A COMPLETE THUNDERCUNT
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What turns something from avoidance to evasion?

Is the Tice example avoidance or evasion?

And agreed on point 2.
 
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