Ex-Wolf Watch

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's their career, they can do what they want.

It's got zero credibility though, the domestic players are mostly League Two or worse level and several clubs get sub-League Two attendances.

 

[Tony Towner]

You can have your feelings about the Saudi regime and PIF, but IMV this smacks as disrespectful to both Ruben and the other players in that league who are there to play football for a living.

Players aren’t puppets in that way.

Come on Alan, even he admitted last week he was there for the money

https://twitter.com/x/status/1733180889310310669

 

[Alan]

Come on Alan, even he admitted last week he was there for the money

So different from players joining clubs in England?

I’ll wind it in but the extent to which people seem to feel okay equating those other professional players to Jim Bob McGee down the street is just never, ever going to sit right with me.

 

[Tony Towner]

So different from players joining clubs in England?

I’ll wind it in but the extent to which people seem to feel okay equating those other professional players to Jim Bob McGee down the street is just never, ever going to sit right with me.

Yes, very. England not only offers the financial rewards it also offers the professional quality. There's a discussion to be had about the financial power of the PL versus it's European equivalents, but not about the standard.

 

[Alan]

The standard doesn’t happen overnight, England’s top league is what it is in no small part because its been the financial behemoth in world football for decades.

It’s just like MLS; you can always find fools here asking “when will we be as good as the Prem?” And the answer is, frankly, never. Not unless we suddenly become the richest league in the world for twenty years running.

You can’t look at untilled soil and just say “it’s shit, nothing will grow here” without even doing the work of seeding more growth.

 

[Tredman]

Prior to being banned from Europe English teams dominated then too, way more than they do now arguably.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I seriously doubt Saudi Arabia will be the best national team in Asia in my lifetime or even close. They're at very best a distant 4th behind Japan, South Korea and Australia right now and Iran tend to produce better players too.

The motives of PIF are fairly transparent anyway, they don't care about it being an all-round superb product or any of the other normal reasons why you would pump money and energy into a league.

Even out of idle curiosity or being invested in an individual player, I don't know a single person who has watched even one Saudi Pro League game in full.

 

[Alan]

I guess I’m making my point badly, because that’s not what I’m getting at.

Whatever. I think it’s a shit way to treat players in any league, even one funded by a bunch of bigoted trillionaires.

Fwiw I don’t at all believe the Prem cares about “the product”, they care about money. Same as the Saudis.

 

[Johnny75]

The standard doesn’t happen overnight, England’s top league is what it is in no small part because its been the financial behemoth in world football for decades.

It’s just like MLS; you can always find fools here asking “when will we be as good as the Prem?” And the answer is, frankly, never. Not unless we suddenly become the richest league in the world for twenty years running.

You can’t look at untilled soil and just say “it’s shit, nothing will grow here” without even doing the work of seeding more growth.

You're missing one important aspect of that. It isn't the money that will change it's the simple fact it's our national sport and most of Europe too.

That's never going to be the case in the US or Saudi.

Kids grow up here kicking a ball from 3 years old and visiting grounds with huge crowds and atmospheres. TV exposure is enormous and players are held up as heroes.

Again that's never going to happen to the US, The NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL will never allow that to happen. I can't see it happening in Saudi for 50 years either.

I had an argument with a, frankly stupid, manager at work who said the US will win a World Cup in 20 years. I pointed out to her that as an Australian she may not have understood the depth of feeling for football in the rest of the world. Argentina, Brazil, the whole of Europe are not going to stand still and let the US win a World Cup. That goes for Saudi too.

There's some things you just can't buy.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You get the situation in boxing sometimes where fighters are criticised for winning a belt then only fighting journeymen and tin cans that they could beat with one hand tied behind their back, avoiding anyone who's actually any good.

Top level players going to Saudi is that situation on steroids.

 

[Alan]

There’s a difference between recognizing that and saying “he may as well be playing pickup with his mates”.

It’s a ridiculous comparison, IMV.

 

[Alan]

You're missing one important aspect of that. It isn't the money that will change it's the simple fact it's our national sport and most of Europe too.

That's never going to be the case in the US or Saudi.

Kids grow up here kicking a ball from 3 years old and visiting grounds with huge crowds and atmospheres. TV exposure is enormous and players are held up as heroes.

Again that's never going to happen to the US, The NFL, MLB, NBA and NHL will never allow that to happen. I can't see it happening in Saudi for 50 years either.

I had an argument with a, frankly stupid, manager at work who said the US will win a World Cup in 20 years. I pointed out to her that as an Australian she may not have understood the depth of feeling for football in the rest of the world. Argentina, Brazil, the whole of Europe are not going to stand still and let the US win a World Cup. That goes for Saudi too.

There's some things you just can't buy.

This is it. This is what bugs me.

This all reads as “football is ours, you can’t have it”.

 

[Tredman]

This is it. This is what bugs me.

This all reads as “football is ours, you can’t have it”.

anyone can have football thats kinda the point - the crowds in Saudi show they don't actually want it..

 

[Alan]

anyone can have football thats kinda the point - the crowds in Saudi show they don't actually want it..

The crowds in MLS 15 years ago weren’t 30k+, it takes time.

Going on about “we just love it differently here” is exceptionalism, and as my home country is lousy with that, it rankles the shit out of me to see it elsewhere.

It’s part of why “The FA” bugs the fuck out of me.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

This is it. This is what bugs me.

This all reads as “football is ours, you can’t have it”.

It's not that, is it.

There's nothing stopping someone forming an American Football league in the UK, it's got a decent fanbase these days as a sport, including plenty of folk on here (I don't mind it but I don't have anywhere near the knowledge to discuss it properly, so I don't). Could have say eight regional franchises, give Scotland and Wales one each then divide England into six. Plenty of stadiums you could use.

It would quite obviously be about 1% of the quality of the NFL no matter how much money you threw at it and to pretend otherwise would be silly.

If say, a West Midlands franchise pulled Tom Brady out of retirement and paid him £100m a year no-one would pretend that gave it credibility.

 

[Tony Towner]

It’s part of why “The FA” bugs the fuck out of me.

You've done that one before, it was bollocks then and it's bollocks now. It comes across to me as bitter and jealous

 

[Alan]

You've done that one before, it was bollocks then and it's bollocks now

“The FA”. No mention of who or where. Just, “The Football Association”.

If that doesn’t imply what the English FA feels about its place in world football I don’t know what does.

I’m done, this is riling me too much and I don’t want to get even snippier, but it’s tremendously disheartening that this stuff doesn’t bug people in the least.

 

[Tony Towner]

“The FA”. No mention of who or where. Just, “The Football Association”.

If that doesn’t imply what the English FA feels about its place in world football I don’t know what does.

I’m done, this is riling me too much and I don’t want to get even snippier, but it’s tremendously disheartening that this stuff doesn’t bug people in the least.

It was the first one, it had no need to differentiate itself. It's not exceptionalism just the reality of history

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

“The FA”. No mention of who or where. Just, “The Football Association”.

If that doesn’t imply what the English FA feels about its place in world football I don’t know what does.

I’m done, this is riling me too much and I don’t want to get even snippier, but it’s tremendously disheartening that this stuff doesn’t bug people in the least.

Just so you know, you now share an opinion with Richard Keys

 

[Alan]

Just so you know, you now share an opinion with Richard Keys

I’m sure I’ve done worse.

It was the first one, it had no need to differentiate itself. It's not exceptionalism just the reality of history

It’s the same, IMV.

It didn’t need to then, but it should do now, like every other FA in the world.