Ex-Wolf Watch

[MARKakaJIM]

They passed up De Bruyne, and bought Hazard.

Levels.

Hazard was at Chelsea before de Bruyne left.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Nuno definitely dropped a bollocks not playing him more. Probably too much loyalty to his regular players.

Might not be a question of loyalty but tactical suitability.

Vitinha didn't look like someone that would spend vast majority of his time sitting deep, holding shape and playing a very restrained game. If Nuno didn't think he fit the system then you can see why he wouldn't play him, if he didn't think he'd ever adapt to it then again you can see why he didn't sign him.

Whether he stood out as such a special talent worthy of having the system bent to his needs is something we'll never know. He certainly didn't stand out to that extent in his limited appearances.

 

[Tony Towner]

Might not be a question of loyalty but tactical suitability.

Vitinha didn't look like someone that would spend vast majority of his time sitting deep, holding shape and playing a very restrained game. If Nuno didn't think he fit the system then you can see why he wouldn't play him, if he didn't think he'd ever adapt to it then again you can see why he didn't sign him.

Whether he stood out as such a special talent worthy of having the system bent to his needs is something we'll never know. He certainly didn't stand out to that extent in his limited appearances.

Which again leads back to 343 holding us back. It did with the last manager and it does with this. Lots of mitigating factors, but when Goncalves eventually goes for £50m+ and Vitinha goes for £40m it's not a good look in terms of the strategy which is to get players at a young age, develop them and move them on if you don't do the developing yourself. When the philosophy is as narrow as ours you can't afford that level of miss

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Which again leads back to 343 holding us back. It did with the last manager and it does with this. Lots of mitigating factors, but when Goncalves eventually goes for £50m+ and Vitinha goes for £40m it's not a good look in terms of the strategy which is to get players at a young age, develop them and move them on if you don't do the developing yourself. When the philosophy is as narrow as ours you can't afford that level of fuck up

I don't think 343 really played a part. He was a player that wanted to pass and move, play quick combination passes with team mates to get around opponents. You can't do that when the rest of the team play like statues and take 3 or 4 touches to simply send it back where it came from. I don't think a different formation suddenly gets everyone buzzing around playing great football, it's deeper than that.

Think Goncalves usually plays as part of a front three on Portugal now doesn't he? No reason he couldn't have done that here in a 343 but he was always seem as a central midfield option as far as I remember.

I do find it a bit odd how Wolves seem determined to filter down tactics from first team to schoolboys though, think that even predates Nuno. Kids should be challenged with different tactics through the years, played in different positions, formations, targeting different styles. You can't produce adaptable, tactically flexible players if you only ever ask them to do one thing from the age of 10 or 11.

It seems inflexibility runs deep through this club at the moment though.

 

[Tony Towner]

I don't think 343 really played a part. He was a player that wanted to pass and move, play quick combination passes with team mates to get around opponents. You can't do that when the rest of the team play like statues and take 3 or 4 touches to simply send it back where it came from. I don't think a different formation suddenly gets everyone buzzing around playing great football, it's deeper than that.

Think Goncalves usually plays as part of a front three on Portugal now doesn't he? No reason he couldn't have done that here in a 343 but he was always seem as a central midfield option as far as I remember.

I do find it a bit odd how Wolves seem determined to filter down tactics from first team to schoolboys though, think that even predates Nuno. Kids should be challenged with different tactics through the years, played in different positions, formations, targeting different styles. You can't produce adaptable, tactically flexible players if you only ever ask them to do one thing from the age of 10 or 11.

It seems inflexibility runs deep through this club at the moment though.

I take your wider point, but a pass and move fluid midfielder won't work in this side when the primary role of your CM's is to protect the back 3. That's the issue, has been for years

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I take your wider point, but a pass and move fluid midfielder won't work in this side when the primary role of your CM's is to protect the back 3. That's the issue, has been for years

That's not exclusive to 343 though, Chelsea's midfield don't have that as their primary role, only one of Spurs' midfield two do it really.

Vitinha's strength was with the ball but he was in a team that often didn't look all that interested in having the ball. If Wolves went 4231 with the same squad you'd be in very much the same situation. The two central midfielders would almost certainly still be sat on the toes of the centre halves most of the time. You'd maybe have opened up a more advanced midfield position to try Vitinha in but the attacking players so little more appetite for moving off the ball and his attacking stands don't appear to show a man that would've transformed that department from a more advanced position anyway.

 

[Jinky]

Didn’t realise there was a Vitinha chat already going on in here when I posted in the transfer thread.

Fosun are an investment company. They buy low, to sell high. Or at least, that’s the business model with the majority of our signings.

Ok, he might not have been sold for €40m euro this window if he’d spent another season here, but for £15m outlay it was a no-brainer. He’d have had to do something pretty major to decrease in value at his age and with his obvious potential - we were always going to make money on him.

We went in to the season with three senior midfielders, we chose not to sign him when he was on a plate for us, now he’s being sold for double the amount less than a year later. Nuno should have played him more, without doubt, but he should have been signed and it’s another one in the ever-growing folder of shit decisions for Jeff & co. They paint themselves as fantastic businessmen yet the collection keeps growing.

 

[From Distant Shores]

Fosun is a holding company, it owns companies from which it expects to see a return on the capital invested. Basically, it creates new businesses, buys existing businesses and sells businesses (in part or in total). It gets a return on capital from the profits that it's companies make and any profit when it sells companies.

The companies that Fosun invests in are not investment companies, they sell products and services such as insurance companies, breweries, clothing companies, holiday companies. Fosun won't see Wolves as an investment company but a business from which it hopes to make a return. Wolves' transfer business will not be of any interest to Fosun unless Wolves ask to borrow money from Fosun.

The transfer buck stops at Compton (unless Wolves asked Fosun for a loan and were turned down).

As for Vitinha, it is possible that he didn't want to stay at Wolves. He didn't get to play much, perhaps didn't like the style of football and may be never settled here (he wouldn't be the first). No point in trying to take up an option on a player who isn't interested.

 

[Jinky]

As for Vitinha, it is possible that he didn't want to stay at Wolves. He didn't get to play much, perhaps didn't like the style of football and may be never settled here (he wouldn't be the first). No point in trying to take up an option on a player who isn't interested.

Nah. I remember at the time it was rumoured he was keen for a permanent switch here and most people expected this to happen. It was only on the first day of pre-season training when he was pictured back at Porto that people started to realise we hadn’t taken up the option.

Stupid decision from all involved.

 

[Johnny75]

Nah. I remember at the time it was rumoured he was keen for a permanent switch here and most people expected this to happen. It was only on the first day of pre-season training when he was pictured back at Porto that people started to realise we hadn’t taken up the option.

Stupid decision from all involved.

Not only that, even if he wanted a season in Portugal before joining us we could’ve bought him and loaned him back to Porto.

It’s a terrible decision by the Chinese Ashley.

#Fosunout

 

[Johnny75]

Fosun is a holding company, it owns companies from which it expects to see a return on the capital invested. Basically, it creates new businesses, buys existing businesses and sells businesses (in part or in total). It gets a return on capital from the profits that it's companies make and any profit when it sells companies.

The companies that Fosun invests in are not investment companies, they sell products and services such as insurance companies, breweries, clothing companies, holiday companies. Fosun won't see Wolves as an investment company but a business from which it hopes to make a return. Wolves' transfer business will not be of any interest to Fosun unless Wolves ask to borrow money from Fosun.

The transfer buck stops at Compton (unless Wolves asked Fosun for a loan and were turned down).

As for Vitinha, it is possible that he didn't want to stay at Wolves. He didn't get to play much, perhaps didn't like the style of football and may be never settled here (he wouldn't be the first). No point in trying to take up an option on a player who isn't interested.

Fosun are a conglomerate with Investment, asset management, consumer goods and pharmaceuticals.

It’s not disingenuous to say they are an investment company at all.

I agree that this is down to Jeff Shi in the main. I hope the man is fucked off/ run over/ deported for eating meat paste (an offence to mankind).

Mostly I’d like Fosun to either get somebody competent in or sell us to somebody that is.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

The decision not to sign Vitinha would have made more sense if we had brought in another CM who could have developed as a replacement for Moutinho or Neves. We clearly had money as we bid for Sanches and Botman and had Sanches come it wouldn’t have made sense to sign Vitinha as well. The big mistake was not signing anyone for CM and the fact Vitinha has excelled only emphasises that.

 

[Paul]

Weird how he's rarely been brought up in conversation prior to his value doubling (?) His 'welcome' page on here is only three pages long and that was a fair split between pre seeing him excitement and how sexy he was, but the most prophetic post was from Tredman
"Porto fans on twitter do seem absolutely distraught about this - weird as he has hardly played any games for them."

 

[Tredman]

Wtf do I know

 

[Del Woppio]

Weird how he's rarely been brought up in conversation prior to his value doubling (?) His 'welcome' page on here is only three pages long and that was a fair split between pre seeing him excitement and how sexy he was, but the most prophetic post was from Tredman
"Porto fans on twitter do seem absolutely distraught about this - weird as he has hardly played any games for them."

There's 200 mentions of his actual name since July 1st, and each one of those will presumably have numerous comments around it. He's absolutely been talked about pretty consistently, I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I’m sure there where plenty of people on here who thought it was a mistake not to sign him at the time. I certainly hoped we’d make his transfer permanent.

 

[Paul]

There's 200 mentions of his actual name since July 1st, and each one of those will presumably have numerous comments around it. He's absolutely been talked about pretty consistently, I'm not sure what your point is.

My point is Is he just a stick to beat Fosun with, how is Nuno escaping any kind of criticism when he didn't even feel necessary to play him constantly or accommodate him formation wise, delete as you see fit.
ps 200 separate mentions in a year, a conversation on Vitinha is started every 1.8 days? That is surprising

 

[Tony Towner]

We clearly had money as we bid for Sanches and Botman

Bidding fees that you know aren't going to be accepted isn't a sign of having money, it's sign of trying to give the illusion you have money

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That’s a very cynical point of view.

 

[Johnny75]

My point is Is he just a stick to beat Fosun with, how is Nuno escaping any kind of criticism when he didn't even feel necessary to play him constantly or accommodate him formation wise, delete as you see fit.
ps 200 separate mentions in a year, a conversation on Vitinha is started every 1.8 days? That is surprising

There are plenty of stocks to beat Fosun with and that is one of them.

They deserve all the shit they get.