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Climate Change Debate

All about what you think a minor inconvenience or a fuss is. We all turn a bit of a blind eye when we’re sympathetic to the cause. If this was a protest about say, stopping the boats, I’ve no doubt those thinking this is no big deal would be furious.

Either way, not for me to decide, but those carrying out these actions and those brushing aside concerns are fast-tracking Farage into the hot seat with his sights on the ECHR and it’ll be another Brexit-style idiotic scratching of the heads wondering where it all went wrong.
 
I'd say powder that washes off and leaves not one single trace of damage is fairly minor, wouldn't you?
 
I’d say that take is minimising from a sympathetic angle. I consider it more coordinated vandalism with a political agenda.

So yeah, for me it’s certainly pushing the boundaries of the peaceful right to protest, borderline as to whether abusing them.

Either way, it’s more shooting yourself in the foot regardless.
 
How is it minimising anything? Is there a way I could word the fact that they carefully selected a powder that would cause no damage and used it to make a statement, hurting nothing and nobody? Do I need to call it woke powder or something?

Can you explain to me really simply how it can be described as anything other than a peaceful process? It couldn't have been less harmful to the monument, and got their cause a lot of attention, which is literally the whole point.
 
Del Woppio said:
How is it minimising anything? Is there a way I could word the fact that they carefully selected a powder that would cause no damage and used it to make a statement, hurting nothing and nobody? Do I need to call it woke powder or something?

Can you explain to me really simply how it can be described as anything other than a peaceful process? It couldn't have been less harmful to the monument, and got their cause a lot of attention, which is literally the whole point.
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Because it’s a view that focuses solely on the ‘no lasting damage’ and avoids the context of the coordinated vandalism political agenda etc..

And yes, it’s something I’d expect the government to put a stop to.
 
Del Woppio said:
Incidentally, do you consider roundabout painters and flag hangers to be a "coordinated vandalism with a political agenda", and should those involved be sent to caught and presumably found guilty, as you believe these should've been?
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Yes. And would expect the government to put a stop to that too.
 
So we've got massive court back logs, overcrowded prisons, a police force that's so stretched that burglaries aren't even seen to, and you want protesters that literally cause no damage thrown into the mix too?

I'm the case of the flags and roundabouts, you're talking about hundreds of people up and down the country.

You think that's a good use of limited resources?

What kind of protest *is* acceptable to you?
 
Probably one’s that don’t involve things like trespass, damage or interference with someone else’s belongings or property, or interfere with any individual’s ability to go about their normal business.

But it’s you guys who have decided those sort of protests don’t bring about the changes YOU want and you are deciding on your strategies.

No government is going to sit idle as you become more coordinated and sophisticated, and we’re seeing the results of that. The face covering ban in the current HoC Crime and policing Bill Is a perfect example of a reaction to those who think it’s acceptable to behave like some sort of militia and want to conceal their identity while doing so.

That of course is just the start. I’ve said where I think this is heading, it’s driving more polarisation, more left v right intolerance and hate, even more restrictive legislation, an erosion of the very things Ms Cociani was bleating about, Farage in No.10 and the ECHR right in his crosshairs.

But what’s important is where those carrying these activities out think we are heading. We must have different visions of where that is and I’d like to hear them, because it would be pretty stupid doing what they’re doing if it’s the same.
 
EpsomWolf said:
Probably one’s that don’t involve things like trespass, damage or interference with someone else’s belongings or property, or interfere with any individual’s ability to go about their normal business.

But it’s you guys who have decided those sort of protests don’t bring about the changes YOU want and you are deciding on your strategies.
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I mean that pretty much rules out everything barring staying home and shouting on the internet.

So let's look at some of the change that protest has achieved and see which ones you think weren't worth the trouble.

Non-property owners having a vote?
Segregation?
Women's suffrage?
Slavery?

Worth the fuss? Just unnecessary political activism that got in the way of people's lives?
 
Those are the stock lines always used to justify the actions being carried out. I’ve already given enough time in explaining my view with a reasonable summary of where those actions are taking us and don’t think it’s necessary to continue that further.

I’ve asked you for yours but there is no reply. You’re supporting those actions not me, I’d like to hear a similar summary of where you think they are likely to take us.
 
So you agree with those protests but you're embarrassed to contradict yourself? Or is it that you don't believe in those protests and causes?


You believe anybody that goes on march or makes a protest should literally be arrested. And you think this should happen so we don't drive polarisation and restrictions? That's an accurate summary of your position, yeah?

What question have I not answered by the way, I haven't intended that.
 
This is descending into farce.

Agreeing or disagreeing with any protest cause is an irrelevance. It’s about the actions of any protestors and a discussion over where the boundaries lie, how the government is reacting and will react going forward, and where the actions will ultimately take us.

I’m quite happy to revisit my summary in the fullness of time and we can tick the boxes or not as the case may be. It would be nice to be able to do the same with yours, or anyone supporting the actions for that matter, but you haven’t given one despite being asked. I’m not sure what more I can do to help you see the question but if you can’t see it you can’t give an answer.

But if you’re confident and happy in the place you think the actions will take us, then crack on.
 
"It would be nice to be able to do the same with yours, or anyone supporting the actions for that matter, but you haven’t given one despite being asked"

I honestly don't know what you're asking me for, I've missed the question?
 
Del Woppio said:
R u"It would be nice to be able to do the same with yours, or anyone supporting the actions for that matter, but you haven’t given one despite being asked"
Did
I honestly don't know what you're asking me for, I've missed the question?
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Thanks for the polite reply.

I empathise with any protestor and see the left particularly as being stuck between a rock and a hard place. You have to protest but can only envisage the escalating actions manifesting themselves in troubling government intervention and a worsening outcome for us all (as summised). From that viewpoint it’s impossible to comprehend why the left and activists in particular are doing what they are doing. They look oblivious to the consequences and in the desperation to do something caught in a negative spiral.

So I suppose I’m asking where do you think the escalation will take us? Do you think there will be further polarisation? An escalation in L v R intolerance and hate, new draconian laws, Farage in number 10 and a potential exit from the ECHR and the chaos all that brings?

To understand, I need to know what you see happening, not what you ‘want’ to happen.
 
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