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Climate Change Debate

There are things we can all do as individuals today to minimize our impact on the environment :-

- Turn your heating down, put an extra jumper on
- Turn off things you aren't using
- Only buy stuff you need, shopping should be an essential not a luxury
- Buy long-lasting quality rather than cheaper, disposable items
- Buy second-hand where you can
- Don't fly
- Try to buy things that haven't been shipped via air-freight (hard to do though)
- Don't buy things with palm oil in
- Walk / cycle short journeys rather than use the car
- Public transport wherever you can
- Cut down on red meat, eat more veggies
- Avoid single use plastics
- Let your garden grow long to become more of a 'meadow' to promote wildlife

These are all behavioural things that don't really cost anything but all have an impact.

I get that there are technological advances happening all the time but until we get free energy and 0 impactful farming we all need to make changes
 
What a load of trite uneducated bollocks.

Look back a few pages and stop being so fucking ignorant. I wish more people would educate themselves instead of spouting pious shite.
 
Johnny75 said:
What a load of trite uneducated bollocks.

Look back a few pages and stop being so fucking ignorant. I wish more people would educate themselves instead of spouting pious shite.
Click to expand...

Please tell me where I can go and buy lab grown meat today?

Please tell me where I can get energy created with 0 carbon emissions?

Please tell me where I can buy something brand new that has been created with 0 fossil fuel emissions?

Please tell me how buying products with palm oil in doesn't impact the environment?

Please tell me how I can use my car for shory journies and impact the same as walking?
 
AndyWolves said:
Please tell me where I can go and buy lab grown meat today?

Please tell me where I can get energy created with 0 carbon emissions? Good Energy, Bulb, Ecotricity are all 100% renewable source energy providers

Please tell me where I can buy something brand new that has been created with 0 fossil fuel emissions?

Please tell me how buying products with palm oil in doesn't impact the environment?

Please tell me how I can use my car for shory journies and impact the same as walking? Buy an electric car and use one of the energy providers above to recharge it. Larger distances covered, able to shop and increases social mobility, which is shown to contribute to increased education.
Click to expand...

If you want to try and do those things, good luck to you. Your questions are nonsense as they are large political challenges not something an individual change of behaviour can change. I personally object to others telling them what to do. It's a form of tyranny and that never ends well.

You want to help, invest in industries that support technological development. Open your own lab meat producing distribution centre if you like. Find an economic alternative to palm oil.

If you want to try to buy anything, and I do mean anything, without a single fossil fuel being burned in a process anywhere then good luck to you. I can only think you'll be walking naked to an open field where somebody will be baking something grown in an organic field powered by solar/ wind/ geo thermal/ human powered source.

Of course using no money whatsoever.

Or you could stop being so pious?
 
I'd be up for some of that baked produce....
 
Johnny75 said:
If you want to try and do those things, good luck to you. Your questions are nonsense as they are large political challenges not something an individual change of behaviour can change. I personally object to others telling them what to do. It's a form of tyranny and that never ends well.

You want to help, invest in industries that support technological development. Open your own lab meat producing distribution centre if you like. Find an economic alternative to palm oil.

If you want to try to buy anything, and I do mean anything, without a single fossil fuel being burned in a process anywhere then good luck to you. I can only think you'll be walking naked to an open field where somebody will be baking something grown in an organic field powered by solar/ wind/ geo thermal/ human powered source.

Of course using no money whatsoever.

Or you could stop being so pious?
Click to expand...


So we just carry on doing what were doing because that's working out really well?

Political / economic change won't happen unless the masses force it. Until the masses change their behaviour the political / economic change won't happen
 
AndyWolves said:
There are things we can all do as individuals today to minimize our impact on the environment :-

- Turn your heating down, put an extra jumper on
- Turn off things you aren't using
- Only buy stuff you need, shopping should be an essential not a luxury
- Buy long-lasting quality rather than cheaper, disposable items
- Buy second-hand where you can
- Don't fly
- Try to buy things that haven't been shipped via air-freight (hard to do though)
- Don't buy things with palm oil in
- Walk / cycle short journeys rather than use the car
- Public transport wherever you can
- Cut down on red meat, eat more veggies
- Avoid single use plastics
- Let your garden grow long to become more of a 'meadow' to promote wildlife

These are all behavioural things that don't really cost anything but all have an impact.

I get that there are technological advances happening all the time but until we get free energy and 0 impactful farming we all need to make changes
Click to expand...

Johnny75 said:
What a load of trite uneducated bollocks.

Look back a few pages and stop being so fucking ignorant. I wish more people would educate themselves instead of spouting pious shite.
Click to expand...

Not sure that most of that list isn't helpful (even if it doesn't reduce that much of the total emissions) - individually we cannot effect the global total, but anything we do does have an impact if enough of us take action.

Would I like to stop driving at all using a petrol driven car for the planet's sake - yes, but it's not realistic yet (unless someone wants to give me a load of cash to buy an alternative source of power) & do as little as possible - would I be happy to heat my home with something other than gas, yes but don't have the cash to do that.

We do as a nation (and the rest of the world as the UK is a fairly minor element in global emissions) need to find technological solutions to stop pumping uneeded elements into the atmosphere.
 
AndyWolves said:
So we just carry on doing what were doing because that's working out really well?
Click to expand...

That is precisely what I am not saying to do (I even listed alternate energy suppliers for you)

AndyWolves said:
Political / economic change won't happen unless the masses force it. Until the masses change their behaviour the political / economic change won't happen
Click to expand...

Then we do it through political lobbying. We don't do it by wearing an extra jumper when it's a bit nippy.

The list makes me shake my head because it's this attitude of 'everything needs to be done instantly or we're all going to die'.

People need to read up on what is happening with technology and the environment and ask government why they aren't subsidising renewables/ energy generation/ recycling/ alternative transport/ public transport. It is only big projects that will affect big change. You know the 80:20 rule and will know that the 20 in this case are major technological changes and the 80 means an extra jumper and will have no affect due to other factors.

Don't want to use a car? Even if it was electric and on completely renewable energy?

Single use bottles wouldn't be a problem for sea pollution if people didn't litter. That's behavioural, maybe we should start there rather than putting extra jumpers on?

Single use bottles could also be a huge energy source if harnessed right as could biomass, want to increase that chance of happening, invest in that. The more money it gets the quicker it happens. Simple economics.

It is pure arrogance to think that such tiny changes such as buying second hand goods will have a single change on environmental emissions.
 
Parkins left foot said:
Not sure that most of that list isn't helpful (even if it doesn't reduce that much of the total emissions) - individually we cannot effect the global total, but anything we do does have an impact if enough of us take action.

Would I like to stop driving at all using a petrol driven car for the planet's sake - yes, but it's not realistic yet (unless someone wants to give me a load of cash to buy an alternative source of power) & do as little as possible - would I be happy to heat my home with something other than gas, yes but don't have the cash to do that.

We do as a nation (and the rest of the world as the UK is a fairly minor element in global emissions) need to find technological solutions to stop pumping uneeded elements into the atmosphere.
Click to expand...

Catch the train or buy/ lease an electric car. There you go you've limited your emissions. Don't particularly need a pile of cash to do it either.

An Amazon backed company along with Ford have invested $700m in electric pick up trucks for the US market. Change is happening but a bit slower than people like it to.
 
Johnny75 said:
That is precisely what I am not saying to do (I even listed alternate energy suppliers for you)



Then we do it through political lobbying. We don't do it by wearing an extra jumper when it's a bit nippy.

The list makes me shake my head because it's this attitude of 'everything needs to be done instantly or we're all going to die'.

People need to read up on what is happening with technology and the environment and ask government why they aren't subsidising renewables/ energy generation/ recycling/ alternative transport/ public transport. It is only big projects that will affect big change. You know the 80:20 rule and will know that the 20 in this case are major technological changes and the 80 means an extra jumper and will have no affect due to other factors.

Don't want to use a car? Even if it was electric and on completely renewable energy?

Single use bottles wouldn't be a problem for sea pollution if people didn't litter. That's behavioural, maybe we should start there rather than putting extra jumpers on?

Single use bottles could also be a huge energy source if harnessed right as could biomass, want to increase that chance of happening, invest in that. The more money it gets the quicker it happens. Simple economics.

It is pure arrogance to think that such tiny changes such as buying second hand goods will have a single change on environmental emissions.
Click to expand...


There are changes we can make today that will have an impact. If only one person does it then there is no impact, if everyone does it the impact is huge. If 10m homes decide not to turn their heating on that will have an impact

If 10m washing machines last 10 years rather than 5 that's a big decrease in the energy and resources required to make new ones.

To make a change it requires everyone to take part, rather than waiting for someone else to solve the problem we should all be making the right choices about how we live our lives. There may well be a technological solution that comes along but why make the problem worse
 
Insulate your house properly, best thing you could do.
 
AndyWolves said:
There are changes we can make today that will have an impact. If only one person does it then there is no impact, if everyone does it the impact is huge. If 10m homes decide not to turn their heating on that will have an impact

If 10m washing machines last 10 years rather than 5 that's a big decrease in the energy and resources required to make new ones.

To make a change it requires everyone to take part, rather than waiting for someone else to solve the problem we should all be making the right choices about how we live our lives. There may well be a technological solution that comes along but why make the problem worse
Click to expand...

It's this type of garbage that irks me. Take your simplistic washing machine argument. Old washing machines aren't as effecient as new ones and that obsolescence is built in for exactly that purpose. The parts of old machines will be recyclable as well.

Making everybody make the same choice out of some warped moral code is as repugnant an idea as I can think of. It stifles innovation.
 
AndyWolves said:
There are things we can all do as individuals today to minimize our impact on the environment :-

- Turn your heating down, put an extra jumper on
- Turn off things you aren't using
- Only buy stuff you need, shopping should be an essential not a luxury
- Buy long-lasting quality rather than cheaper, disposable items
- Buy second-hand where you can
- Don't fly
- Try to buy things that haven't been shipped via air-freight (hard to do though)
- Don't buy things with palm oil in
- Walk / cycle short journeys rather than use the car
- Public transport wherever you can
- Cut down on red meat, eat more veggies
- Avoid single use plastics
- Let your garden grow long to become more of a 'meadow' to promote wildlife

These are all behavioural things that don't really cost anything but all have an impact.

I get that there are technological advances happening all the time but until we get free energy and 0 impactful farming we all need to make changes
Click to expand...

nice one andy. attitude change is needed.
 
bill nye was pretty great on the new LWTWJO

 
that's the bit at the end of the show, he had another 10:20 in

 
Andy said... "There are things we can all do as individuals today to minimize our impact on the environment" and then listed some.
He didn't say "If we do these things as individuals, we can reverse climate change"

What he said is factually correct.

And when people say "we should drive less" - they generally mean in petrol/diesel cars and would usually accept that electric cars were a better option (though hardly environmentally clean - the resources required to produce cars are pretty massive)
And when people say "eat less meat", they are clearly referring to "traditional" meat - i.e. meat that comes from living animals that have to be farmed in great numbers to meet the demand. To say meat eating is no issue because of the potential of synthetic meat is pure sophistry.

People feel helpless. They are aware of a climate crisis/environmental crisis - not a looming one, one already underway - and are looking for ways in which they as individuals can lessen their own contribution to that crisis, however small and insignificant. Everyone is aware that the real significant change that will be required will come from global governmental action and technological innovation, but beyond lobbying and voting and arguing on football forums, there's not a great deal anyone can do to affect the big picture. But they're entitled to state their case and argue that other people follow suit.

We can't prevent a great many ills as individuals - racism, sexism, homophobia, Mrs Brown's Boys - but we can at least do our best not to perpetuate them and argue with others that they should do likewise.

If that's repugnant, I can live with that.

So in summary - keep it up Andy!
 
Johnny is a zealot and his only way of replying is from his viperous sniping troll 20000 keyboard. I have tried to debate things with him but its always answered with vitriol and its not just this thread. Hence why he is on ignore. He may well have some great ideas and facts about how we can all change but his methods of communicating are draconian and switch people off. With regard to climate change if all of us did the things on Andys list it would be a positive start.
 
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