Brighton & Hove Albion v Wolves (A) 15/12/2021 7.30pm Build Up & Match Thread

[Johnny75]

He probably isn't ready to play consistently but if you aren't willing to stick him in for a one off game against a severely depleted backline then you'll never ever play him. Hwang looks like a parks player half the time, especially when the ball is into feet which is likely how most of his service will be as a lone striker.

Quite right he shouldn't be played this season.

Out on loan in Jan.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Does this qualify as a 'dig'? Or has everyone forgotten about that now?

I don't think anyone thought we'd hold that position for long (I literally said we wouldn't) but we've hardly been a million miles away from getting points off Liverpool and City, and the predicted battering by West Ham didn't materialise either.

We all can see we're inconsistent and struggle to score, just cos people are glass half empty about every scenario now doesn't suddenly make them insightful seers after we've narrowly lost to the two best teams in the league!

Our factual position in the table is always of more importance than possible doomsday scenarios. It's literally the most important metric in football?

I just say things as they are. Not negative, not positive, just reasoned thought. So don’t confuse me with “doomsday scenarios” please.

My point was that the league table wasn’t a good metric at that point, which it wasn’t.

 

[Deano]

He probably isn't ready to play consistently but if you aren't willing to stick him in for a one off game against a severely depleted backline then you'll never ever play him. Hwang looks like a parks player half the time, especially when the ball is into feet which is likely how most of his service will be as a lone striker.

For all the often valid criticism aimed at Fabio, he had a decent return last year. He actually provided a very nice assist against Brighton for Adama and also got a man sent off.

You say Hwang looks like a parks player half the time (I agree he hasnt been great recently in general play) and Fabio had a decent return but Hwang has got the same amount of league goals as Silva in a third of the games. From what we have seen of Silva so far he's not good enough to be playing in the Premier League. Whether or not that's resolved on the training ground/a loan/ him moving on i'm not sure but I don't think he will play Wednesday based on anything he's shown here so far.

 

[Jinky]

I don't even think we should be asking Hwang to try and hold the ball up, as such. Obviously there will be an element of that, but he's never winning a physical battle against someone like Dan Burn anyway, so I'd rather get Adama/Podence playing closely to him and getting him to spin off/in behind their defence (like his goals v Newcastle) rather than lumping long balls at his head. That's also why i would play three midfielders and four at the back. Play through the middle, control the midfield and get Hwang playing on the shoulder.

I just don't think Fabio can do either job (hold the ball up or run in behind).

 

[prawnking]

I just say things as they are. Not negative, not positive, just reasoned thought. So don’t confuse me with “doomsday scenarios” please.

My point was that the league table wasn’t a good metric at that point, which it wasn’t.

We're not going to agree on this, but I think interpretation is irrelevant. The table is what it is, it's factual. We had a good enough points haul to be in a good position at that time. That means something.

And I really don't think anyone was using that to silence reasonable concerns, which seems to be your proposition. But being in a good place in the table should still be a factor in making sure those concerns are proportionate, surely? We were in the joint best position we've ever been in the PL, not something to be brushed off

 

[YoungWolf]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1470394606504325129

 

[Alan]

Problem is, what happens if we look great and the front three click/play really well without Raul? You just know he will come back in regardless (and so he should, but he hasn't looked threatening at all for weeks).

I'd personally go 4 at the back and have the extra body in midfield -

Sa
Semedo Kilman Coady RAN
Moutinho Donk Neves
Podence Hwang Traore​

If we start scoring for fun with him out then his starting role should absolutely be questioned.

As I don't think we're quite equipped to do that, it'll probably be moot.

 

[SSB]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1470394606504325129

“3 or 4” cases in our squad and we’d be bolloxed.

 

[PuntsWolf]

We're not going to agree on this, but I think interpretation is irrelevant. The table is what it is, it's factual. We had a good enough points haul to be in a good position at that time. That means something.

Interpretation isn’t irrelevant? The league is a factual tally chart with limitations. Which gradually reduce as the season goes on. There’s a reason prizes aren’t dished out until May.

If people want to ignore it’s limitations, even when it’s been waved in front of their face then

IMO what I saw with my own eyes and considering the fixture list we had, was outweighing what a limited tally chart was saying.

And I really don't think anyone was using that to silence reasonable concerns, which seems to be your proposition. But being in a good place in the table should still be a factor in making sure those concerns are proportionate, surely? We were in the joint best position we've ever been in the PL, not something to be brushed off

Reasonable concerns were dismissed (unless I’ve gone mad and made it up, possible).

My thoughts were proportionate. I said I’m happy with Bruno but he’s also not the next Klopp (yet).

It wasn’t brushed off.

After all that I don’t actually know what your point is.

 

[prawnking]

Interpretation isn’t irrelevant? The league is a factual tally chart with limitations. Which gradually reduce as the season goes on. There’s a reason prizes aren’t dished out until May.

If people want to ignore it’s limitations, even when it’s been waved in front of their face then

IMO what I saw with my own eyes and considering the fixture list we had, was outweighing what a limited tally chart was saying.



Reasonable concerns were dismissed (unless I’ve gone mad and made it up, possible).

My thoughts were proportionate. I said I’m happy with Bruno but he’s also not the next Klopp (yet).

It wasn’t brushed off.

After all that I don’t actually know what your point is.

My point is that you're wrong to say concerns and debate were shut down with constant reference to the league table. It was just offered as a consideration.

I myself simply questioned whether the dourness and defeatism before this tough fixture run was really necessary given the reality of where we were in the league.

You'd think we'd swapped places with Newcastle from the tone of some posts at the time

You can maintain the table doesn't matter till May if you like, tell that to the managers who've been sacked so far this season due to their teams league positions. Of course it matters

 

[PuntsWolf]

My point is that you're wrong to say concerns and debate were shut down with constant reference to the league table. It was just offered as a consideration.

Do you speak on behalf of the entire forum now do you?

I myself simply questioned whether the dourness and defeatism before this tough fixture run was really necessary given the reality of where we were in the league.

I wasn’t defeatist, just simply said the end of it would give us a more accurate representation of where we’re at as I felt the the table had us in a false postion given performances and fixtures. I struggle how that is debatable to anyone unless they were watching with their eyes closed.

You can maintain the table doesn't matter till May if you like, tell that to the managers who've been sacked so far this season due to their teams league positions. Of course it matters

Who said it doesn’t matter? It’s just not the overriding factor. It’s part of all the evidence, which I said the rest of the evidence “outweighed” it.

As per your arguing points I haven’t made. But you know that.

 

[prawnking]

As per your arguing points I haven’t made. But you know that.

What on earth are you talking about? It's become pointless discussing anything on here when people are so defensive and touchy

 

[Paul]

Love it when I can drag this picture out

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Using league position as a metric after 15 odd games is not unreasonable but equally doing so without taking into account who we’ve played is rather naive. Whilst we have performed well in the last two games losing them and sliding down the table was extremely predictable.

 

[WsWolf]

You say Hwang looks like a parks player half the time (I agree he hasnt been great recently in general play) and Fabio had a decent return but Hwang has got the same amount of league goals as Silva in a third of the games. From what we have seen of Silva so far he's not good enough to be playing in the Premier League. Whether or not that's resolved on the training ground/a loan/ him moving on i'm not sure but I don't think he will play Wednesday based on anything he's shown here so far.

A decent return for an 18 year old kid in a very defensive side isn't the same as a decent return for an established player though for me. Not to say Hwang's goal return isn't good because it is for a wide man, I just don't think he has the necessary skills to play as a focal point.

He probably won't which is another nail in the Fabio coffin.
I understand that strikers without raw pace generally develop much later so I'm not expecting him to come in and dominate a game but coming in and being competent shouldn't be beyond him.

If we aren't going to bring him on or even play him when we have no centre forward available then we need to be moving him somewhere to get game time because without playing regularly I don't see how he's going to improve to a level where Lage trusts him enough to play.

 

[sycophantia]

I'm wondering if this game gets called off if Brighton already have 3 or 4 cases of covid, in fact is there a chance the league will be suspended, apparently 42 cases atm among Premier league clubs

 

[Tredman]

See at which point does this become their own fault? Brighton have one of the lowest vax rates, they should forfeit.

 

[Alan]

See at which point does this become their own fault? Brighton have one of the lowest vax rates, they should forfeit.

Carl Ikeme dislikes this.

 

[jd1981]

Wouldn’t surprise me if the league is suspended over Xmas then have a re assessment in early January.

 

[Tony Towner]

Ikeme has very muddled thinking. Blames Covid for people with treatable cancers dieing, which is undoubtedly true and obviously a cause very close to his heart. How he then turns that into being anti vax/any restrictions is a gap I'm struggling to fill