Beer

[Deutsch Wolf]

I guess the point is the magic of cask is going to be left behind by more and more of the best UK breweries until pubs are brave enough to charge fair prices for their beer on cask.

You can keep your ~£3 offerings from the big boys, pub estates, tied brands and your traditional cask ales that are cheaper to produce, but it just seems crazy that, for example The Lych Gate would never dream of offering a pint of Buxton Axe Edge or Magic Rock Common Grounds on cask for £5 ish when Slaters can sell in on keg right next door for the same price.

It doesn't need to become the norm, there's plenty of people willing to pay a fair price for a premium product. I'm not suggesting everyone needs to do it - the Old Speckled Hen crowd will always be well catered for and looked after - but it's a crime that so much "craft cask" (for want of a better phrase) won't be given the chance to thrive (for the reasons covered in the links I previously posted).

I'm just telling you that people are not going to pay that en masse and in a horrible market, pubs are not going to allocate pump space to stuff that hardly anyone will touch on the basis of price point. I understand the merit of what you're saying - even if it isn't for me - but this is the real world.

Slater's probably runs at a huge loss at the moment.

 

[Boozad]

I'd happily pay £5 a pint for quality beers rather than the vast majority of shite that's on offer in most pubs these days, but I do realise I'm in the great minority. Shame, and as my daughters get older it'll be the main reason I'll carry on drinking at home.

 

[Boozad]

Which version of Smoke n Barrels?

Not sure to be honest, I think it's the Summer Orange.

 

[Langers]

I'd happily pay £5 a pint for quality beers rather than the vast majority of shite that's on offer in most pubs these days, but I do realise I'm in the great minority. Shame, and as my daughters get older it'll be the main reason I'll carry on drinking at home.

There are still plenty of top beers available for far less though. And if you're out with a mate, a lot of people simply aren't willing to spend £10 on a round of 2 drinks.

 

[machin05]

I'm just telling you that people are not going to pay that en masse and in a horrible market, pubs are not going to allocate pump space to stuff that hardly anyone will touch on the basis of price point. I understand the merit of what you're saying - even if it isn't for me - but this is the real world.

Slater's probably runs at a huge loss at the moment.

I hardly think I'm being a fantasist. It's like when Hugh Fearnley-Whitingstall was trying to stop everyone buying shit chickens.... Craft is free range and plenty of people buy free range chicken these days.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Mmmm, that's a question of animal welfare though. Not exactly apples with apples.

Most people don't give enough of a shit about beer to pay those prices. Provincial town pubs are dying as it is, without whacking the price point up 35-50%.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

I'd happily pay £5 a pint for quality beers rather than the vast majority of shite that's on offer in most pubs these days, but I do realise I'm in the great minority. Shame, and as my daughters get older it'll be the main reason I'll carry on drinking at home.

But a lot of pubs have some decent beers at much less than £5 a pint. I think you are being ripped off if you pay that for a glass of beer.

 

[machin05]

There are still plenty of top beers available for far less though. And if you're out with a mate, a lot of people simply aren't willing to spend £10 on a round of 2 drinks.

The point is that the choice isn't even there as the breweries are being forced to sell in cask practically at a loss. Not every cask beer needs to cost £5 but having at least one premium option in your average real ale boozer would be amazing and see the even further rise in quality of the best beer in the UK/world.

 

[machin05]

But a lot of pubs have some decent beers at much less than £5 a pint. I think you are being ripped off if you pay that for a glass of beer.

Did you read the links?

I'd be happy to pay more for better than decent. I'm happy to pay less for decent if I want a lot of it.

Choice is king and the best breweries are being forced to abandon cask because of this very attitude from the punters which in turn dictates what pubs feel they can sell. Thus removing the choice and killing the advancement of the cask ale market.

 

[machin05]

Mmmm, that's a question of animal welfare though. Not exactly apples with apples.

Most people don't give enough of a shit about beer to pay those prices. Provincial town pubs are dying as it is, without whacking the price point up 35-50%.

No, but if breweries can start to thrive and turn actual profits, that's kind of like people welfare for the staff

Again, I'm not suggesting all prices go up. The existing cheap ales won't be affected.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Yes I read the links, but I despair at the beer snobbery on here.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE NOT DRINK WHAT I WANT?! :icon_lol:

If the market isn't there (it isn't) then I'm not sure what you expect. I could write exclusively about Mo Camara and Mark Rankine's efforts at full back if I wanted, it'd have a very limited niche appeal and in that tiny sector be very well received no doubt. But I couldn't then have an eppy if it only got 80 views a piece.

 

[visage]

You should come to London - theres a craft beer place next door to the office that is a pound a pint *cheaper* than the chain bars that are on every corner.

http://pelttrader.co.uk/

 

[Tredman]

Not really sure what the argument is here, if some people are willing to pay more for a better beer then surely that's good (I am), those that are not happy to pay will probably be happy enough drinking John smith's and friends. People don't get worked up because people waste money buying apple phones.

If craft cask isn't making money and it can't be economically produced to serve the niche market willing to pay a bit more then it will sadly die a death, but that's the nature of capitalism.

 

[machin05]

HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE NOT DRINK WHAT I WANT?! :icon_lol:

If the market isn't there (it isn't) then I'm not sure what you expect. I could write exclusively about Mo Camara and Mark Rankine's efforts at full back if I wanted, it'd have a very limited niche appeal and in that tiny sector be very well received no doubt. But I couldn't then have an eppy if it only got 80 views a piece.

I don't think I'm saying that?!??

I honestly don't think it's as limited and niche as you think it is, UK wide.... (I'm not being specific about Wolves, by the way - this was all prompted by a Manchester brewery pulling their cask offering in a cask ale heartland)

People will pay for it on keg - loads of people. The market is thriving (perhaps not in Wolves, as Slaters is the only option and they are useless at/scared of presenting themselves purely as a craft bar) - even Wetherspoons pay full price for keg. Cask margins are rock bottom unless you're making a shit-tonne of it and using very cheap ingredients (UK hops, and not many of them) and its the perception that cask HAS to be cheap that I'd love to see change.

 

[machin05]

Not really sure what the argument is here, if some people are willing to pay more for a better beer then surely that's good (I am), those that are not happy to pay will probably be happy enough drinking John smith's and friends. People don't get worked up because people waste money buying apple phones.

If craft cask isn't making money and it can't be economically produced to serve the niche market willing to pay a bit more then it will sadly die a death, but that's the nature of capitalism.

I think the argument is that pubs presume that punters will turn their nose up at premium priced cask - regardless of what beer's in it. Therefore they won't pay fair price for a cask of beer, despite paying it for a keg of the same liquid.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You're blaming 'the punters' attitude' so yeah; you pretty much are blaming the customer base for lack of discernment

It's something you're very, very passionate about but I can guarantee you that Wolves isn't unique - stick a beer on at £5/pint in Halifax, Coventry, Lincoln, Stoke, Derby...you'll get fuck all takers.

 

[Tredman]

I think the argument is that pubs presume that punters will turn their nose up at premium priced cask - regardless of what beer's in it. Therefore they won't pay fair price for a cask of beer, despite paying it for a keg of the same liquid.

It's never even crossed my mind, maybe that's a Camra thing - Im not even sure I knew cask was cheaper, outside of the standard drafts.

 

[machin05]

You're blaming 'the punters' attitude' so yeah; you pretty much are blaming the customer base for lack of discernment

It's something you're very, very passionate about but I can guarantee you that Wolves isn't unique - stick a beer on at £5/pint in Halifax, Coventry, Lincoln, Stoke, Derby...you'll get fuck all takers.

I think it's more the pubs view of the punters, more than the punters themselves.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Just going to ask....

What is the difference between cask and keg?

From what I've gathered one is more expensive but tastes better despite being the same liquid put in?