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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

sycophantia said:
Sounds great (not the dog costs obvs).
We'll be in the Alps in August. Prices for accommodation seem to have really ramped up this year compared to 2 years ago, we're finding air b & b is the same price this year as small/cheap hotels were in 2023.
Wonder if all the passes will be open by June?
Click to expand...

I quite often find the same accommodation cheaper on Booking.com, if you have got discounts. I am in Penzberg in Bavaria for the next 2 weeks and I have saved over £200 renting the same accommodation and this is because I have accumulated discounts with Booking.com.
Airbnb, by the time they take their cut and on top of that the cleaning costs, often works out more expensive now.
 
Walshes Wolves said:
I quite often find the same accommodation cheaper on Booking.com, if you have got discounts. I am in Penzberg in Bavaria for the next 2 weeks and I have saved over £200 renting the same accommodation and this is because I have accumulated discounts with Booking.com.
Airbnb, by the time they take their cut and on top of that the cleaning costs, often works out more expensive now.
Click to expand...
Yeah we tend to use booking.com and air b&b, tbh recently there's not much difference in price now.
 
sycophantia said:
Sounds great (not the dog costs obvs).
We'll be in the Alps in August. Prices for accommodation seem to have really ramped up this year compared to 2 years ago, we're finding air b & b is the same price this year as small/cheap hotels were in 2023.
Wonder if all the passes will be open by June?
Click to expand...
Been a few years since I last did the Alp road trip thing and yes, it is now seriously expensive. When looked at as a total cost package Chunnel/fuel/tolls/accomodation (you’ll be familiar with all that) plus the dog costs it’s a fair old sum of money. Could have a very nice holiday somewhere exotic for similar and am increasingly hesitant as costs escalate.

Planning on Switzerland and would like to get across the Stelvio Pass (of Top Gear’s best road in Europe fame) as last did that about 15 years ago and was amazing. Still considering just cutting costs though and having a gentler getaway trip to maybe France or Germany, but I suspect everywhere is pretty damn expensive nowadays anyway. I’m up for the Mosel and having a blast around the Nurburgring (did that in an airport rental Golf diesel 10 years ago) but not sure the dog would be too impressed with that.

Probably one to go over to the ‘holiday’ thread tbh but essentially yes, agree costs in Europe seem to be rocketing too.
 
Stelvio was often snowy in the giro in May cut June should be open.

Galibier can be problematical
 
EpsomWolf said:
Been a few years since I last did the Alp road trip thing and yes, it is now seriously expensive. When looked at as a total cost package Chunnel/fuel/tolls/accomodation (you’ll be familiar with all that) plus the dog costs it’s a fair old sum of money. Could have a very nice holiday somewhere exotic for similar and am increasingly hesitant as costs escalate.

Planning on Switzerland and would like to get across the Stelvio Pass (of Top Gear’s best road in Europe fame) as last did that about 15 years ago and was amazing. Still considering just cutting costs though and having a gentler getaway trip to maybe France or Germany, but I suspect everywhere is pretty damn expensive nowadays anyway. I’m up for the Mosel and having a blast around the Nurburgring (did that in an airport rental Golf diesel 10 years ago) but not sure the dog would be too impressed with that.

Probably one to go over to the ‘holiday’ thread tbh but essentially yes, agree costs in Europe seem to be rocketing too.
Click to expand...
Not got round to the Stelvio yet.
We've accommodation booked in the Innertkirchen area as I want to do the Susten/Grimsel/Furka triangle.
 
From Autocar this week, an article entitled ‘End of the Line’ marking the final closure of Vauxhall’s factory in Luton after 120 years vehicle production in the town.

The factory made the Vauxhall Vivaro van but also related vans from the Citröen Fiat and Peugeot brands.

Some production will move to the sister plant at Ellesmere Port which made Astra cars until quite recently but many jobs will be lost.

The company, Stellantis, which now owns Vauxhall says that its decision to move van production to one location was influenced by the impacts on its business of Brexit and the zero emissions vehicle mandate.

Eurig Druce the UK boss said: “We have to make sure that we have continued free trade with Europe because there is very little point manufacturing in the UK for UK supply alone”

We think that what he actually means frictionless trade allowing not just for tariff free trade but just in time deliveries and the swift and easy movement of components vehicles and staff across European borders.
 
leedswolf said:
From Autocar this week, an article entitled ‘End of the Line’ marking the final closure of Vauxhall’s factory in Luton after 120 years vehicle production in the town.

The factory made the Vauxhall Vivaro van but also related vans from the Citröen Fiat and Peugeot brands.

Some production will move to the sister plant at Ellesmere Port which made Astra cars until quite recently but many jobs will be lost.

The company, Stellantis, which now owns Vauxhall says that its decision to move van production to one location was influenced by the impacts on its business of Brexit and the zero emissions vehicle mandate.

Eurig Druce the UK boss said: “We have to make sure that we have continued free trade with Europe because there is very little point manufacturing in the UK for UK supply alone”

We think that what he actually means frictionless trade allowing not just for tariff free trade but just in time deliveries and the swift and easy movement of components vehicles and staff across European borders.
Click to expand...

www.politico.eu

Germany’s economy is driving off a cliff. The car industry is behind the wheel.

The incoming chancellor will inherit a host of problems buffeting carmaking, including high energy and labor costs along with a looming trade war.
www.politico.eu www.politico.eu
 
Tyrannosaurus Dan said:
NHS cancer patients denied life-saving drugs due to Brexit costs, report finds
https://www.theguardian.com/science...o-brexit-costs-report-finds?CMP=share_btn_url
Click to expand...

You would think the article would mention that the EU has been accused many times of not allowing children suffering with cancer not to get the right treatment.

What type of journalist fails to mention that, unless he has written a shallow one-sided article for clickbait?
ecancer.org

Seize chance to close EU loophole in childhood cancer treatments, say cancer experts - ecancer

Cancer treatments are not being trialled in children because of outdated European regulations which are in urgent need of reform, say cancer experts. Th
ecancer.org ecancer.org
 
Walshes Wolves said:
You would think the article would mention that the EU has been accused many times of not allowing children suffering with cancer not to get the right treatment.

What type of journalist fails to mention that, unless he has written a shallow one-sided article for clickbait?
ecancer.org

Seize chance to close EU loophole in childhood cancer treatments, say cancer experts - ecancer

Cancer treatments are not being trialled in children because of outdated European regulations which are in urgent need of reform, say cancer experts. Th
ecancer.org ecancer.org
Click to expand...
This article is 8 years old, is it still the case?

Also why would this have to be posted along side the other article?
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
This article is 8 years old, is it still the case?

Also why would this have to be posted along side the other article?
Click to expand...

Please read this and see the difference in style. Nobody in their right mind is against children or anyone else getting the best treatment. It is just the article in the Guardian sets out trying to get clickbait, by using Brexit, Kids and cancer. I think this article is much more balanced and is about trying to find solutions.
news.cancerresearchuk.org

Less red tape and lower costs: How the UK-EU political reset can support cancer research progress worldwide - Cancer Research UK - Cancer News

We reflect on how the UK and EU could grasp opportunities for scientific cooperation to promote health and wealth across the continent
news.cancerresearchuk.org news.cancerresearchuk.org
 
Starmer pushed for a 2nd Ref. Today Labour reiterate - No return to Freedom of Movement, EU Single Market, or a Customs Union
 
Templeton Peck said:
Starmer pushed for a 2nd Ref. Today Labour reiterate - No return to Freedom of Movement, EU Single Market, or a Customs Union
Click to expand...
It’s pretty clear that Labour see not pissing voters off is more important than getting support by implementing policies that would improve our country.
 
Wilf Wolf said:
It’s pretty clear that Labour see not pissing voters off is more important than getting support by implementing policies that would improve our country.
Click to expand...
It's also because the accession process would take many, many years due to blocking by the vested interests in the establishment that took us out.

A solid example is The City where they would not be happy to lose their 'freedoms' and would take it out on Labour. Those freedoms were under attack because the EU wanted to tighten up around 2010-14 after the crisis in 2008 especially on dirty money in the financial centres of the EU eg London, Frankfurt, Milan, Paris and Amsterdam. London was seen as disproportionately the dirty centre of finance and that was the real reason why we were taught that we should renew our sovereignty. That is also the real reason why the likes of Farage (the front man), Aaron Banks, Jim Ratcliffe, Dyson et al were pro Brexit. Immigration was just a dead cat that wound up the masses.

Another factor is that the accession process is far more complicated nowadays compared to when we first went in 50 years ago. We have no proper written constitution and the royals, for example, would have to be appeased/pleased. Remember when a consortium of investigative journalists including at The Guardian, discovered the secretive vetting of laws under an umbrella term called 'Queen's Consent' in 2020?

www.theguardian.com

Royals vetted more than 1,000 laws via Queen’s consent

Exclusive: secretive procedure used to review laws ranging from Brexit trade deal to inheritance and land policy
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Those are the real reasons and clearly Starmer et al cannot afford to explain them.
 
People also easily forget that the EU aren't that likely to go "ah come on then, back you come, on the exact same bespoke deal you had before".

They don't want to send the message that you can come and go as you please.

We fucked it, for two generations, minimum. Anyone who was stupid enough to vote for it can carry it round their neck, you did this.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
People also easily forget that the EU aren't that likely to go "ah come on then, back you come, on the exact same bespoke deal you had before".

They don't want to send the message that you can come and go as you please.

We fucked it, for two generations, minimum. Anyone who was stupid enough to vote for it can carry it round their neck, you did this.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Here in Germany there's other priorities as with the French, and those two are still the EU Motor. Many citizens of the EU would welcome us back but many too would say something like 'WTF, them again? Make em stew and we don't spend all that time and waste money we don't have on them again'. Also, who knows what the Yanks, Russians etc would do to interfere...
 
We won't be going back in for a very long time. Adopting the Euro would be a condition in all likelihood, no Government is getting elected on that manifesto and no referendum would pass with it either.
 
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