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O'Neil In, Out and Shaking it all about

His mentality is very small time. What do you expect we're a small team against giants etc. It's at least somewhat a tactic but it does seem like he actually believes we can write many games off. Mentality is clearly a big issue with the team, you can see that in how there is little drive to attack Liverpool today.
 
Saturday is a supposed “not as hard fixture” so the plucky loser card can’t be played.4 times this season he’s had the side come in at half time either level or ahead. Not gone on to win any and lost 2 from winning positions.
11 of the 16 conceded have also come in the second half. Basically we almost concede 2 goals per second half. It’s an awful look for GON as it highlights a clear lack of ability to effectively change games. Also puts the fixtures are to hard crap to bed if we’re in a good position at half time.
To add this calendar year we’ve played 11 home matches in PL W 3 D 0 L8 GF14 GA26. 2 of the wins were v relegated sides, defeats included games v Brentford, Palace, West Ham and Bournemouth. We can look at deeper this calendar year we’ve played 24 games and picked up 19 points. Gets you around 30 points after 38 matches and certain relegation.
It’s not even a case of him being under pressure anymore it’s now a case of those above him being incompetent not to see it’s a complete mess.
Yes you can blame injuries but he got 16 points in 10 games before xmas with Neto out.
 
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In fairness to Brentford, they’ve also had to play Liverpool, Man City & Spurs in their opening fixtures (lost all three of them).

The key bit is in between those matches they’ve beaten Palace & Southampton and drawn with West Ham - so they regularly pick up points against the “teams in & around them”, something I’m not sure we’re capable of.

Brentford will be looking at us and targeting three points, for sure.
 
Has any Wolves manager ever come back from a majority of fans wanting them sacked. Ironically the only one I can think of is GO last year. I’ll be amazed if he pulls it off again as there are so many issues that come back to him.
 
Obviously Arne Slot wants to make himself look as good as possible, but he doesn't seem like someone given to hyperbole and he'll have done his homework, so I found his post-match observations from the other side of the fence quite interesting:

. . . if you have a very good manager like Gary O'Neil, who is tactically really strong and comes up with a strong game plan and that's what he did. We were ready for this. You always have to wait to [see] then exactly what he does. He overloaded our right side in a good manner, which made it difficult for us to control the game in the first 15 to 20 minutes. Then when it [the game] lied down a bit, the energy went away maybe and then I think we took more and more control over the game.
. . .
It's almost ideal that we played Wolves today because we are top and they're last and they absolutely don't deserve to be last. They had a very difficult fixture list and I've seen many games of them and in almost every game they deserve more. You could even argue [that] today because it wasn't like we were so much better than them. They were in the game [and] doing a lot of good things. If they keep doing this against other teams as well they will never end up No.20 [in the league].
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Not exactly reasons to be cheerful, but certainly an opinion, if shared, that means we might not have a change of manager any time soon.
 
Said it before everyone likes teams that play pretty stuff but allow the opposing side plenty of opportunities to win matches. It’s easy being nice when you’ve got 3 points.
Teams like us always end up in a sticky situation.
Nuno was accused of all sorts of crap, dark arts, anti football, to many Portuguese players, corrupt Jorge Mendes relationship etc
Basically it was bitterness from clubs we beat and outperformed.
Ilkay Gudogan was less than complimentary to us after we won at the etihad in 2019.
You know things are going well when opposition fans, coaches and media make snide comments about you.
 
Who wants a pat on the head from these patronising cunts as we slide down to obscurity?

Slot doesn't so his homework that well either, cos they were only 'top' after they beat us, not before. You'd think he'd played against O'Neil dozens of time the way he goes on
 
Has an opposing manager ever come out and said their opponents were clueless? Easy to be complimentary when you’ve walked away with three points and makes you look better if you can explain how you got one over a good opponent.
 
Jeff says, 'That Arne fella, he knows a thing or two,' was more the point I was trying to make in the summary line.
 
The thing is Slot has a point i think, unfortunately because of the run we are on there’s not a lot of open minds and seeing everything as it is. It’s more confirming what people already think particularly if you don’t rate GON at all or it’s playing on emotion. I genuinely think GON is a good coach overall and can set up a team reasonably well from the start of games(this season he has) but he really struggles once the opposition changes anything or if he has to change anything. For some reason there is no plan b for games.

Looking at the games this season:-

Arsenal - In the game, probably should have been level with Larsen and Cunha chances. Beaten by poor goalkeeping and pressing for both goals. Arsenal didn’t really change anything but promising performance on the whole.

Chelsea - Chaotic first half but we were the slightly better team in the first half. Maresca makes a slight tactical switch and GON does nothing until it was too late. Sa went all human sieve again.

Forest - Chaotic again which has now been settled down with Andre coming in. Draw was about right but once again subs were questionable and particularly the use of them.

Newcastle - Completely in charge of the game and should have been 2-3 up. Once Newcastle made subs and we became tired GON had no idea what to which led to the inevitable. Took Larsen off and put Dawson upfront, madness.

Villa - Not seen Villa look so unthreatening in the first half and again we should have been 2 up. Once Emery changed it and bought Bailey on to stretch the pitch and took off Onana/Ramsey there was only one winner. When it was obvious the midfield needed freshening up he took off the only player we’ve got that can occupy centre halves.

Liverpool - Seen lots say we didn’t play well as that matches what they want but we did to a point. Started the game solidly as Slot has pointed out but then struggled for 15 minutes when they changed it up a bit and went in 1 down. Got back in to it which was a surprise but once we went behind again we were never going to score another. Again took Larsen off who we are capable of going long too which led to aimless passing round at the back as Liverpool pressed everything in midfield and Hwang is just pointless at the moment.

My point basically is that in every game this season we’ve been in it and should have more points despite the tough fixture list. This says to me with time GON can come up with a reasonable game plan even if there’s things we could all question. There are things such as do we play a 2 or 3 in midfield, should Cunha be playing as a 10, should Lima be the second option at rb rather than Doc, what is Lemina’s position? What is Bellegarde’s position? The thing is someone will always question team selections but we’ve been well in all games.

The trouble is you can be in games all you like unless you win games it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things and pressure starts to build which only makes winning harder. GON is very inexperienced still and i think that’s telling especially in our last 20 or so games and i’m not sure he can turn it around. I’m far from convinced he’s suddenly going to turn in to a tactical genius in games and start to manage them effectively but while he’s here i still hope he can. Despite that I think we’ll have enough about us this season to turn it around because unless that does happen he’ll be gone and i have to believe someone will be able to get the best out of some very good players. For me you should always want the best you can get so i’d be looking to move him on and show some ambition with the appointment(i know Jeff Shi) but ignoring that for now they cannot afford for us to go down and look at the last time we were close, they went all out and will again imo. Personally i’d go Potter despite reservations after his Chelsea spell, more behind the scenes than football for me with that one but i’m sure there’s a number of managers who could do a good job that would love to work with RAN, Andre, Joao, Cunha and various others.

Long post i know but i do think it’s a lot more complex than i’m seeing it discussed and i can’t listen to the podcasts as it’s just usual fan drivel with no actual reasoning or knowledge most of the time.
 
With reference to @slink, I agree it’s a complex situation most things are.
Nevertheless no matter how deep you look at things it all leads back to the main thing results and the league table.
I think his set up at the start of games is generally ok however it appears he is not able to see problems occurring in game. Half time instructions don’t seem to be working either.
A lot is down to his inability to be proactive in game.
Being in games regularly and not coming out with anything is demoralising and seems that there’s a bit of a feeling sorry for ourselves attitude.
I do think he’s working with some crap players who don’t show any resilience.
 
Bellegarde's best position is collecting splinters in his arse.
 
slink said:
The thing is Slot has a point i think, unfortunately because of the run we are on there’s not a lot of open minds and seeing everything as it is. It’s more confirming what people already think particularly if you don’t rate GON at all or it’s playing on emotion. I genuinely think GON is a good coach overall and can set up a team reasonably well from the start of games(this season he has) but he really struggles once the opposition changes anything or if he has to change anything. For some reason there is no plan b for games.

Looking at the games this season:-

Arsenal - In the game, probably should have been level with Larsen and Cunha chances. Beaten by poor goalkeeping and pressing for both goals. Arsenal didn’t really change anything but promising performance on the whole.

Chelsea - Chaotic first half but we were the slightly better team in the first half. Maresca makes a slight tactical switch and GON does nothing until it was too late. Sa went all human sieve again.

Forest - Chaotic again which has now been settled down with Andre coming in. Draw was about right but once again subs were questionable and particularly the use of them.

Newcastle - Completely in charge of the game and should have been 2-3 up. Once Newcastle made subs and we became tired GON had no idea what to which led to the inevitable. Took Larsen off and put Dawson upfront, madness.

Villa - Not seen Villa look so unthreatening in the first half and again we should have been 2 up. Once Emery changed it and bought Bailey on to stretch the pitch and took off Onana/Ramsey there was only one winner. When it was obvious the midfield needed freshening up he took off the only player we’ve got that can occupy centre halves.

Liverpool - Seen lots say we didn’t play well as that matches what they want but we did to a point. Started the game solidly as Slot has pointed out but then struggled for 15 minutes when they changed it up a bit and went in 1 down. Got back in to it which was a surprise but once we went behind again we were never going to score another. Again took Larsen off who we are capable of going long too which led to aimless passing round at the back as Liverpool pressed everything in midfield and Hwang is just pointless at the moment.

My point basically is that in every game this season we’ve been in it and should have more points despite the tough fixture list. This says to me with time GON can come up with a reasonable game plan even if there’s things we could all question. There are things such as do we play a 2 or 3 in midfield, should Cunha be playing as a 10, should Lima be the second option at rb rather than Doc, what is Lemina’s position? What is Bellegarde’s position? The thing is someone will always question team selections but we’ve been well in all games.

The trouble is you can be in games all you like unless you win games it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things and pressure starts to build which only makes winning harder. GON is very inexperienced still and i think that’s telling especially in our last 20 or so games and i’m not sure he can turn it around. I’m far from convinced he’s suddenly going to turn in to a tactical genius in games and start to manage them effectively but while he’s here i still hope he can. Despite that I think we’ll have enough about us this season to turn it around because unless that does happen he’ll be gone and i have to believe someone will be able to get the best out of some very good players. For me you should always want the best you can get so i’d be looking to move him on and show some ambition with the appointment(i know Jeff Shi) but ignoring that for now they cannot afford for us to go down and look at the last time we were close, they went all out and will again imo. Personally i’d go Potter despite reservations after his Chelsea spell, more behind the scenes than football for me with that one but i’m sure there’s a number of managers who could do a good job that would love to work with RAN, Andre, Joao, Cunha and various others.

Long post i know but i do think it’s a lot more complex than i’m seeing it discussed and i can’t listen to the podcasts as it’s just usual fan drivel with no actual reasoning or knowledge most of the time.
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We could be on 3/4 points for sure, however there are so many underlying issues stopping that.
- we look gassed out at 60 mins every time
- as you say his in game management, but especially substitutions.
- lack of balance in attack (and across the squad generally)
- picking someone like Doherty
- starting Bellegarde every game who is clearly not good enough
- I disagree about how he sets up a team introduction of Andre has helped slightly but still setting up with so much space between midfield and defence, that’s not inexperience that’s stupidity
 
The bottom line for me is, and many people said this when he was appointed, there's no logical reason why we should have put ourselves in the position of choosing a novice manager to cut his teeth with us when we were into our sixth PL season and we're a decent sized club.

He should have been making these mistakes at Bolton or Pompey
 
Being able to react tactically to the needs of the game is every bit as important as being able to set up well though. Slink I feel like your first paragraph was setting up for an entire post of defence, but actually it's 90% criticism, even though it's veiled or sugared. I think the 'we need to give him time, he'll come good' attitude is pretty similar to all the times people thought Adama had finally turned his potential into consistency. But it never has, and it never well.

If he had the potential to change a game, he'd have done it by now. He looks more naive now than he did in his early Bournemouth games! He's sat on two wins in the last twenty games, that's not a hard luck story - it's a not good enough story.
 
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