Wolves League of Nations

[slink]

To be fair to Alan it's fact that we will never know if Bull would have done well at that level because he never played there. Now i only saw him from 94 onwards but obviously know a lot of fans who saw all of him and he would have been good enough, his performances in an England shirt back that up too. You can disagree with him for sure and i do even though i've put Lescott in, i think the gap between him and the other centre halves i could have put in was far too big especially when i can put Keane in up top but you can disagree without being rude imo.

 

[Wolfmania]

I reckon I'd go for (first games that I remember clearly were 2003/4 season but I won't recall much before say George N'dah becoming anonymous due to injuries):

(4-1-2-3)

GK - Hahnemann (USA)

RB - Foley (IRE)
CB - S.Ricketts (WAL) [He was such a class act in my eyes]
CB - Boly (FRA)
LB - Douglas (SCO) [can't remember many up to scratch LBs before this season really]

CDM - Saiss (ALG)
CM - Neves (POR)
CM - Milijas (SER)

LW - Sako (MAL)
ST - Camara (SEN)
RW - Kightly (ENG)

 

[Jabbawolf]

I haven't said I know better than anyone, only that the comparison between Lescott and Bull shouldn't be made on hypotheticals.

Alan - Bully played a number of times for England - yes, that is no guarantee of longevity at the top but anybody who saw Bully in his pomp knows he deserved his caps, and would have scored a hatful in the top division, but for his admirable loyalty.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Someone touched a nerve.

Damn straight they did. I gave three straight warnings with a flimsy analogy before that tirade in fairness.

To be fair to Alan it's fact that we will never know if Bull would have done well at that level because he never played there. Now i only saw him from 94 onwards but obviously know a lot of fans who saw all of him and he would have been good enough, his performances in an England shirt back that up too. You can disagree with him for sure and i do even though i've put Lescott in, i think the gap between him and the other centre halves i could have put in was far too big especially when i can put Keane in up top but you can disagree without being rude imo.

We'll never know if Leo Messi could do it on a wet night in Stoke either but what do you think he would do if he played in the PL?! I don't think anyone's been rude. It's an inflammatory opinion (of sorts), based on nothing, thrown out to be contrary as far as I can see, it's going to be met negatively especially given the context.

I haven't said I know better than anyone, only that the comparison between Lescott and Bull shouldn't be made on hypotheticals.

So what do you suggest we do? Ignore what we saw? Refuse to speculate on anything whatsoever until we've seen it for a definitive fact, with our own eyes? Best not talk about any potential signings from now on, after all we do not know how they'll fit into our team and could therefore be rubbish.

This whole conversation is ridiculous. It's a shame there aren't many WWII veterans around these days, perhaps you could tell them that the Eastern Front "wasn't so bad" and we'll "never know" what might have happened if they'd just manned up a little bit more.

I'm being facetious of course, but fucking hell mate. You're bringing a penknife to a gunfight here.

 

[Alan]

Look, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. I know Bully is well-loved (rightly so) but I haven't said he definitely would have been bad at the highest level.

We've all seen players look like world beaters at one level and score goals of true quality only to completely flop at the highest level. Obviously Bull has a World Cup campaign under his belt so there is some glimmer of optimism in there.

Yes, Dan is right that I'm not an expert on English football in the late 80s and early 90s. I honestly didn't think my statement was so outlandish and would kick up such a fuss.

I've completely derailed this thread now and I apologise for that.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Stand your ground Alan, Bully was a big fish in a small pond and they're all at pains to admit it!

 

[Tony Towner]

Look, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. I know Bully is well-loved (rightly so) but I haven't said he definitely would have been bad at the highest level.

We've all seen players look like world beaters at one level and score goals of true quality only to completely flop at the highest level. Obviously Bull has a World Cup campaign under his belt so there is some glimmer of optimism in there.

Yes, Dan is right that I'm not an expert on English football in the late 80s and early 90s. I honestly didn't think my statement was so outlandish and would kick up such a fuss.

I've completely derailed this thread now and I apologise for that.

The point you are missing Alan is the relative distance between the top 2 leagues back then which was still predominantly made up of British players. Bully was picked for a World Cup ahead of Ian Wright, Alan Smith, John Fashanu etc all of whom were proven Div 1 forwards at the time. As I said previously, the financial incentive wasn't the same then as it is now, so he chose not to leave us. The landscape was very different and not the same as saying Assombalonga for example scores a lot of goals at Championship level so would be a guaranteed PL hit.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The gap between the divisions was nowhere near as pronounced then as it is now. Worlds apart. Leeds went up in 1990 and won the First Division in 1992. Blackburn went up in 1992 and won the Premier League in 1995. Because there were relatively few foreign players in our league (I think on the opening day of the PL in 1992, there were 12 foreign players who started across all the games, in a 22 team division), there weren't teams racing away at the top with galactico squads and so you wouldn't wonder "will he make the step up" as you would now. If you were a good Second Division player then you almost certainly would, at least to an extent.

Around 1990-92 the likes of Tony Cascarino, David Speedie, Lee Chapman, Tony Cottee, Kerry Dixon, John Fashanu, Trevor Morley and Paul Wilkinson (and there are plenty of others I could mention) were heavily featured towards the top of the goalscoring charts in the top flight. In as much as I can guarantee anything of this nature, I can guarantee you that Steve Bull was miles better than all of them.

The world has moved on and I don't mind that, but trust me, he would have made it. Not even a scintilla of doubt.

 

[Alan]

Stand your ground Alan, Bully was a big fish in a small pond and they're all at pains to admit it!

Honestly I'd rather fold than continue make Dan mad. I like Dan!

 

[AndyWolves]

Look, I didn't mean to start a ruckus. I know Bully is well-loved (rightly so) but I haven't said he definitely would have been bad at the highest level.

We've all seen players look like world beaters at one level and score goals of true quality only to completely flop at the highest level. Obviously Bull has a World Cup campaign under his belt so there is some glimmer of optimism in there.

Yes, Dan is right that I'm not an expert on English football in the late 80s and early 90s. I honestly didn't think my statement was so outlandish and would kick up such a fuss.

I've completely derailed this thread now and I apologise for that.

You said it yourself, he played at a world cup. How many other players who've failed to make the transition to the top level have played for a good national side?

 

[PuntsWolf]

I feel like choosing Afobe for Congo is almost cheating. He was English for us!

Hahnemann (USA)

Foley (Ireland)
Berra (Scotland)
Boly (France)
Ricketts (Wales)

Saiss (Morocco)
Neves (Portugal)
Milijas (Serbia)

Sako (Mali)
Bonatini (Brazil)
Jarvis (England)

I would have put Douglas at LB but I needed Berra to stave off some horrific CB options. My first game was about four months after Lescott left.

All the Scottish players you could have picked and you picked Berra!

 

[leedswolf]

The gap between the divisions was nowhere near as pronounced then as it is now. Worlds apart. Leeds went up in 1990 and won the First Division in 1992. Blackburn went up in 1992 and won the Premier League in 1995. Because there were relatively few foreign players in our league (I think on the opening day of the PL in 1992, there were 12 foreign players who started across all the games, in a 22 team division), there weren't teams racing away at the top with galactico squads and so you wouldn't wonder "will he make the step up" as you would now. If you were a good Second Division player then you almost certainly would, at least to an extent.

Around 1990-92 the likes of Tony Cascarino, David Speedie, Lee Chapman, Tony Cottee, Kerry Dixon, John Fashanu, Trevor Morley and Paul Wilkinson (and there are plenty of others I could mention) were heavily featured towards the top of the goalscoring charts in the top flight. In as much as I can guarantee anything of this nature, I can guarantee you that Steve Bull was miles better than all of them.

The world has moved on and I don't mind that, but trust me, he would have made it. Not even a scintilla of doubt.

Brian Deane managed it. I'm certain Bully would have.

 

[jlo]

Waiting for Paul Ince to appear in someone's team...

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Honestly I'd rather fold than continue make Dan mad. I like Dan!

I'm a very placid man these days. Except when it comes to footballing inaccuracies

 

[Alan]

You said it yourself, he played at a world cup. How many other players who've failed to make the transition to the top level have played for a good national side?

Emile Heskey?

 

[PuntsWolf]

Emile Heskey?

He played his whole career at the top level?

 

[Parkins left foot]

This was difficult - apologies to Jinky for leaving Bull out, but needed a left back

Hahnemann (USA)

Ricketts (Wales)
Munro (Scotland)
Boly (France)
Parkin (England)

Saiss (Morocco)
Neves (Portugal)
Milijas (Serbia)

Keane (Ireland
Bonatini (Brazil)
Sako (Mali)

 

[leedswolf]

Hennessey (Wales)

Muscat (Oz)

Munro (Scotland)

De Wolf (Ned)

Parkin (England)

Neves (Portugal)

Saiss (Morrocco)

Camara (Sen)

Dougan (N Ireland)

Keane (ROI)

Sako (Mali)

 

[FrankMunro-371]

This was difficult - apologies to Jinky for leaving Bull out, but needed a left back

Hahnemann (USA)

Ricketts (Wales)
Munro (Scotland)
Boly (France)
Parkin (England)

Saiss (Morocco)
Neves (Portugal)
Milijas (Serbia)

Keane (Ireland
Bonatini (Brazil)
Sako (Mali)

At least one person with sense and picking big Frank...

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Hennessey (Wales)

Muscat (Oz)

Munro (Scotland)

De Wolf (Ned)

Parkin (England)

Neves (Portugal)

Saiss (Morrocco)

Camara (Sen)

Dougan (N Ireland)

Keane (ROI)

Sako (Mali)

Attack attack attack!