Wolves 2-3 West Ham: Verdict Thread

[Tony Towner]

Neves looked better when he was deeper, this means though we need a more expansive CM to contribute to the forward play

If coached and set up properly Neves and Dendoncker can work in a 4231. Donck spent last week doing the DM role for Belgium. Compare how we set up last night to England last week who were theoretically playing the same formation. Look at the relative spaces between the centre halves and centre mids on transition, look how high both full backs were. To evolve we need better players as all sides do, but we could do a lot better with what we have if they are set up correctly.

That said the errors for the goals weren't really formation driven, in as much as they still could all have been stopped despite us continually conceding midfield. They were errors made by individuals not by tbe formation.
1st goal - Donck needs to foul just inside our half and Saiss needs to challenge
2nd goal - Semedo has been done like that before and Saiss hasn't got close enough to the man in the box before
3rd goal - Patricio has conceded shots he should save before. 5/6 this season now and again there is no tactical foul.
All of those errors could have happened in a 343 or 352.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

If coached and set up properly Neves and Dendoncker can work in a 4231. Donck spent last week doing the DM role for Belgium. Compare how we set up last night to England last week who were theoretically playing the same formation. Look at the relative spaces between the centre halves and centre mids on transition, look how high both full backs were. To evolve we need better players as all sides do, but we could do a lot better with what we have if they are set up correctly.

That said the errors for the goals weren't really formation driven, in as much as they still could all have been stopped despite us continually conceding midfield. They were errors made by individuals not by tbe formation.
1st goal - Donck needs to foul just inside our half and Saiss needs to challenge
2nd goal - Semedo has been done like that before and Saiss hasn't got close enough to the man in the box before
3rd goal - Patricio has conceded shots he should save before. 5/6 this season now and again there is no tactical foul.
All of those errors could have happened in a 343 or 352.

I think the first can be stopped long before it ever gets into Wolves half.

Dendoncker got the ball off the corner of the West Ham box with players and passing options around him but just floated a poor cross weakly in the vague direction of the back post, Podence made no attempt to get anywhere near it and that allowed Coufal to take it down from an awkward height before playing an easy pass to a team mate. Then RAN get's drawn to the ball like a moth to a flame over 3/4 of the way up the pitch, your team has already lost the ball by this point numb nuts show a bit of restraint! Neves not much better on the next pass as he too gets drawn towards the ball but his lack of mobility means he's nowhere near getting to it or making a real challenge.

It's an appalling goal to concede right from the moment it falls to Dendoncker all the way until it hits the back of Wolves' net.

 

[AndyWolves]

1st goal - full backs high, midfield high competing for a ball by West ham's box. I'm all for getting players forward but let's be a little more pragmatic! Should have taken Lingard out and took the yellow. A lesson they will learn hopefully

2nd goal - Semedo beaten and then Fornals all alone in the box with 4-5 players round him.

3rd goal - Rui done at his near post again.

Our goals

1st - Adama was awesome and ran the length of the pitch, Donk planted his header

2nd - great ball from Neto and excellent finish from Silva

If we continue with this system then we will get better with it, players will understand it more and adapt.

 

[AndyWolves]

***xG warning***


Wolves 1.96 Vs 1.60 West Ham

 

[YoungWolf]

***xG warning***


Wolves 1.96 Vs 1.60 West Ham

Statsbomb data is better than understat (but fbref take longer update) so it's even worse, 2.5-1.2!

 

[northfield wolf]

Relegation isn't even remotely an issue.

Fulham, Sheff Utd, Burnley, West Brom and Brighton are our next five games. Go überpessimistic if you like and say we end up picking up five points from that.

Gives you 40.

Guarantee you that Fulham and Newcastle are not getting there.

Just been looking at Newcastles remaining fixtures, im glad we arent in their shoes.

 

[Tony Towner]

***xG warning***


Wolves 1.96 Vs 1.60 West Ham

Statsbomb data is better than understat (but fbref take longer update) so it's even worse, 2.5-1.2!

We concede soft goals and miss great chances. Pretty much the story of the season.

Does XG double count ie does it include both the Neto and Jose misses as if one goes in the other doesn't happen?

 

[YoungWolf]

We concede soft goals and miss great chances. Pretty much the story of the season.

Does XG double count ie does it include both the Neto and Jose misses as if one goes in the other doesn't happen?

To your first point, yes, we are underperforming in both areas. Small sample size of 30 games but suggests it's not totally as bad as we think, even if we have dropped off a lot this season. We are a mid-table team this season, basically.

Statsbomb don't double count a far as I am aware, they also factor in more variables (like GK position, height of ball).

 

[AndyWolves]

Two questions I have

1) was Jose shit? We seemed to lose 'something' when he went off

2) was Semedo shit? He seemed to see a lot of the ball

 

[AndyWolves]

I think our search for a CB is easier in this formation, 'all' they need to do is defend. Being good on the ball is much less important in this formation - that should make finding one easier

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

1) was Jose shit? We seemed to lose 'something' when he went off

Yes he was, he offers absolutely nothing.

 

[Lupo]

Yes he was, he offers absolutely nothing.

He offers an outlet








For your ire!

 

[Johnny75]

Two questions I have

1) was Jose shit? We seemed to lose 'something' when he went off

2) was Semedo shit? He seemed to see a lot of the ball

1) Jose should've scored twice but his overall link play was good. He provided a physical focal point for attacks and was a problem for Dawson and Diop. This allowed Fabio to make his run for his goal.

With Jose off we were easy to mark and lacked any sort of physicality up top so West Ham just dropped deep and let us have the ball.

2) Semedo had a lot of the ball, made some excellent runs and defended soundly bar one mistake. His crossing was woeful though.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Yes he was, he offers absolutely nothing.

Yet Fabio and us were worse without him , strangely. We won’t sign him but if Fabio is going to play it’s alongside a target man like Raul or Similar. I could even tolerate Mir getting a go if Raul needs to settle in.
I get that Donk and Neves should work. But it doesn’t too often and we must have conceded 10 really soft goals minimum this season and doubled 15 really clear chances. That’s inefficient at both ends and a recipe for struggling

 

[NicholasG1973]

Neves looked better when he was deeper, this means though we need a more expansive CM to contribute to the forward play and then the CBs - I think you get away with one of the pair last night when playing with a much more solid CB next to them, not both, we all know we need a CB though, my worry is trying to bring in two in one window. If I was prioritising signings now it would be

CB
CM
LB
SS/CF - The Jose replacement 3rd striker, but a completely different mould of player


5 additions and them all working seems a lot, but I'd like them to look at increasing the depth of the senior squad by at least 2 players. I'd be happy for them to be looking at a similar deal to Marcal for example, or if they think some of the younger players are ready to make more of an impact again fine with that, but a lot of the times it feels they are prop subs, that are never actually going to play.

In my opinion, what separates Neves from being a top four, almost world class CM, is his pace.

He’s too slow to play in a two in our current midfield. He needs pace next to him in a two and Donk and Moutinho don’t give him that.

Because he’s so talented, I get people wanting to play him higher up the pitch - we can see he can score goals - but the problem with that is that he doesn’t get back quick enough and teams tear us apart through the middle.

I don’t have the answers by the way - just an observation.

Id be building a team around Neves though and, if that means him sitting deep then buy one/two CMs that can do his running for him.

 

[Jinky]

Read a large chunk of this thread but ran out of time on page 4 so apologies if this has been mentioned.

West Ham were streets ahead of us in terms of the dark arts. Early fouls, taking a couple of yellow cards when we were about to break on them where as we just let them run and run and run and then score. Even right at the end, Lingard gets the ball shoved in to his waist by Neto (basically Pedro was telling him to hurry up), Lingard drops the ball deliberately to waste time, then takes an age to take the throw and is quite rightly booked - then boots the ball in to the stands over his shoulder - surely that's a second yellow, no? Not surprised Pedro was frustrated at the end, but I'm sure he was already annoyed at his own performance. No way any of the big clubs come in for Neto in the next window - somewhat understandably, his levels have dropped right off in the last few games. But we are relying on him way too much and need to remember that this is his first full breakthrough season.

We just seem to struggle with certain players - and Antonio is one of them. He looks like a world-beater every time he plays against us. Thank God he went off because who knows what the score would have been if he'd played the full 90.

Donk, I thought did alright yesterday. RAN (as mentioned in the matchday thread) needs to do more for me. He's not our biggest issue, but he's playing within himself. It's extremely easy to just pass the ball back to the centre backs. If this is an instruction from Nuno, why? I want to see him taking players on and whipping crosses in. He hardly ever does it - why? He also gets knocked off the ball far too easily.

Big game against Fulham now. I don't think we'll go down, for the reasons others have covered already - but we definitely don't want that gap to be closed any more. Heaven forbid we lose to Fulham and give them the confidence to go on a 2-3 game unbeaten run. I don't think it will happen, but once again, we've put pressure on ourselves where it wasn't needed.

We need a LWB/LB, 2 x CB's (who can both play in a 4 - perhaps one readymade to go next to Boly and one younger up and coming player), and a CM in the next window. I have my doubts.

 

[AndyWolves]

I think I'd have Vitinha over Podence, not in the ten but in a midfield 3 with Neves and Moutinho.

A front three of Neto, Silva and Adama. Podence can play off the bench if either Neto or Adama aren't on it.

 

[BeaverWolf]

Two questions I have

1) was Jose shit? We seemed to lose 'something' when he went off

2) was Semedo shit? He seemed to see a lot of the ball

1/ We did seem to regress when he went off. He did not play at the level required but did almost show signs of doing so. Might as well have left him on I feel.
2/I like Semedo but he needs to get rid of that vital error per game.

 

[BeaverWolf]

1) Jose should've scored twice but his overall link play was good. He provided a physical focal point for attacks and was a problem for Dawson and Diop. This allowed Fabio to make his run for his goal.

With Jose off we were easy to mark and lacked any sort of physicality up top so West Ham just dropped deep and let us have the ball.

2) Semedo had a lot of the ball, made some excellent runs and defended soundly bar one mistake. His crossing was woeful though.

Agree with you. One day you might agree with something I say? Bet thats funny!

 

[Derby Wolf]

Odd decision to sub RAN at the death. If Nuno hasn't gone full Ken subbing a right back chasing a goal then it suggests he might have a knock?

As I said to PK the other day I'm not really bothered about the results at the moment but don't flip flop back to a 5. We have huge kinks to iron out but now is the ideal time to do it. If this is the way forward then commit to it and follow through, don't bottle it.

Pleased for Donk, how we need him to turn into the second coming of Edwards and score half a dozen after doing nothing for 30 games! I can't help but be pleased for Fab another goal, really smart finish shame Jose couldn't do likewise.

For the pelters Jose gets i think we lost something when he went off, the game sort of petered out after Donk blazed over. West Ham managed the game well but I was hoping for one big chance but it just didn't come.