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Wolves 1 - Nottingham Forest 0 - another step in the path to redemptio verdict thread

Paddingtonwolf said:
And that is EXACTLY why referees are supposed to stop the game and not play advantage.
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Surely an advantage can be given to the attacking team but then play is halted as soon as that advantage is over?
 
No it can't - if they are sending the player off they must stop the game IMMEDIATELY.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
No it can't - if they are sending the player off they must stop the game IMMEDIATELY.
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fair enough if that's the rule, but i can't myself see what's wrong with sniff's suggestion either. in this instance it's one shot and then the ref blows and sends the guy off.
 
So if a professional foul is committed just outside the box but the ball breaks free to a Wolves player who scores, the ref should by rights blow his whistle and award a free kick and send the player off rather than allow the goal to stand?

I'm not disputing that you are correct Paddy. I just thought that the advantage rule would be used as a goal in the case above is better for the wronged side than a free kick outside of the box.
 
You can't just randomly bring play to a stop to issue a card though can you, it's either got to be stopped when the initial foul happens or you wait until the ball goes dead to issue the card. Say you play the advantage and a tame shot ends up in the keeper's arms, how to you bring play to a stop to issue the card there? And if so, how do you restart it again?
 
MARKakaJIM said:
You can't just randomly bring play to a stop to issue a card though can you, it's either got to be stopped when the initial foul happens or you wait until the ball goes dead to issue the card. Say you play the advantage and a tame shot ends up in the keeper's arms, how to you bring play to a stop to issue the card there? And if so, how do you restart it again?
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...but you can use the advantage rule and bring the play back.
 
Sniffer Grouse said:
So if a professional foul is committed just outside the box but the ball breaks free to a Wolves player who scores, the ref should by rights blow his whistle and award a free kick and send the player off rather than allow the goal to stand?

I'm not disputing that you are correct Paddy. I just thought that the advantage rule would be used as a goal in the case above is better for the wronged side than a free kick outside of the box.
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agree. we're not talking about what's technically right here, it's about what would make sense. the object of football is to score goals and we already know in situations players will get themselves sent off in order to stop a goal being scored. so it makes dubious sense to stop a goal being scored in order to send a player off, just to be "technically" right. how an advantage rule could be technically changed to allow that situation is open to question.
 
Sniffer Grouse said:
...but you can use the advantage rule and bring the play back.
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You can't give the advantage and then the freekick as well when the team have ballsed it up surely?

If you give the advantage and the attacking team score then the ball is dead, offending player is sent packing and everyone is happy but not every situation will play out that way, as we saw last night, you couldn't have pulled that back for a freekick where MGW was fouled after letting the play continue just because the shot at the end was shit, Wolves had the advantage and fluffed it. That lead to the problem with Fox still being on the pitch as play went down the other end so it would've been a cleaner solution just to award the freekick immediately, issue the card and then restart from there with Wolves in possession.
 
My Forest mate said before the game that he thinks they need 4 points from us and Blackburn or they're down. Not looking good for them then!
 
Thanks for the report lj- Edwards was really praised on wolves player, was he as good as they said?
 
Premier Quality said:
Thanks for the report lj- Edwards was really praised on wolves player, was he as good as they said?
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A stupid amont of work rate. When Forest were passing it around the back, he was the main man in pressing them. Made them make so many mistakes and the first time I had seen Edwards dead on his feet in the last ten mins.
 
Work rate, but also sensible use of the ball, so short passes but ones that got us moving. In the past he's only gone back or sideways, but the commentators were very positive.
 
MARKakaJIM said:
You can't give the advantage and then the freekick as well when the team have ballsed it up surely?

If you give the advantage and the attacking team score then the ball is dead, offending player is sent packing and everyone is happy but not every situation will play out that way, as we saw last night, you couldn't have pulled that back for a freekick where MGW was fouled after letting the play continue just because the shot at the end was $#@!, Wolves had the advantage and fluffed it. That lead to the problem with Fox still being on the pitch as play went down the other end so it would've been a cleaner solution just to award the freekick immediately, issue the card and then restart from there with Wolves in possession.
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I guess you could do, but there are surely other options.

no dispute with what you've written. but the principle of the advantage rule is that a team that is fouled shouldn't lose an advantage (ie goal scoring chance) simply because of the need to punish the foul. the absurdity of the sending off issue is that it seems this principle doesn't apply when you've been wronged enough that the other side merits having a player sent off. so you lose the advantage in that situation. and it doesn't seem like it's because the advantage rule is wrong when a sending off issue occurs, or that the sending off is sufficient to replace the advantage, it's more because the rules can't cater for the what-ifs - ie can't work out how to send a guy off post advantage if the ball hasn't gone out of play.

i agree the current rule might be "cleaner" but personally I don't think it makes sense to bypass the advantage rule for that reason.
 
The problem is that advantage is usually either pulled back within about two seconds (because it is clear nothing has accrued) or it has to be let go.

What if the ref could play advantage as long as possible but had to signal it like in rugby? The issue there is the player that knows he is about to be sent off when the whistle blows might as well blatantly break another law if a certain goal is going in, as how much worse could it be.
 
Good stuff. As long as he isn't just pressing. Passing sounds an improvement lately. Threaded a pass for Costa's goal didn't he. Still don't want to see him in our starting XI next season. But if things keep improving and we sign some players, I'd be happy with him on the bench.

Sounds like Coady is improving as well. My main gripe with him was when he was hoofing long aimless balls over the top all game (and not offering anything AT ALL moving forward).
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
What if the ref could play advantage as long as possible but had to signal it like in rugby? The issue there is the player that knows he is about to be sent off when the whistle blows might as well blatantly break another law if a certain goal is going in, as how much worse could it be.
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Happens on Fifa online! Dirty bastards. (With yellow cards though)
 
nimrod said:
I guess you could do, but there are surely other options.

no dispute with what you've written. but the principle of the advantage rule is that a team that is fouled shouldn't lose an advantage (ie goal scoring chance) simply because of the need to punish the foul. the absurdity of the sending off issue is that it seems this principle doesn't apply when you've been wronged enough that the other side merits having a player sent off. so you lose the advantage in that situation. and it doesn't seem like it's because the advantage rule is wrong when a sending off issue occurs, or that the sending off is sufficient to replace the advantage, it's more because the rules can't cater for the what-ifs - ie can't work out how to send a guy off post advantage if the ball hasn't gone out of play.

i agree the current rule might be "cleaner" but personally I don't think it makes sense to bypass the advantage rule for that reason.
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It's going to vary case to case isn't it?

Like last night Wolves could've very easily scored from the advantage, player gets sent off immediately afterward, everything is coming up in Wolves' favour, alternatively you give the freekick and send the bloke off but Wolves take a shit freekick that goes straight out and everyone whinges, that's potentially offset by more chances that could be created with a man advantage but equally you could never make another chance again all game. In Forest's favour they got to squeeze a bit more time out of their player before he was sent packing, he could've helped prevent another goal against or created one going the other way before play has stopped so then they get an unfair advantage as a result of Wolves having the original advantage of playing on, no-one would want to see that outcome. What if you played advantage and a Wolves player committed a bad challenge which resulted in a red card for them, perhaps in retaliation?

In general, when used properly, the advantage rule is a positive but I think when a sending off is included it can create more problems, no-one knows what is going to unfold during the advantage whereas the sending off is a certainty so I see no issue with awarding that decision.
 
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