Welcome Hwang Hee-Chan

[Banjo]

Chang reminds me of David Kelly. The footballer (not the scientist that was a thorn in the side of Tony Blair)

Mate. "Chang"? Ffs.

 

[Alan]

It won't be the worst we see.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

Is Chang offensive or is it because it’s not the name by which we should call him? I genuinely don’t know
If not I don’t think calling him Chang in error rather than Chan is any worse than calling someone named Davis, Davies or Clarke, Clark.
Are we looking for racism where racism doesn’t exist?

 

[Alan]

Is Chang offensive or is it because it’s not the name by which we should call him? I genuinely don’t know

A little of both, honestly.

In this case it should bug us roughly as much as it bugged Lycan when commentators would call Nuno "Nuno Santo" whilst leaving out the "Espirito". Equally, Hwang's appropriate family is Hee-Chan. Not "Hee", not "Chan", and definitely not the mildly stereotypical "Chang".

 

[Lycan]

A little of both, honestly.

In this case it should bug us roughly as much as it bugged Lycan when commentators would call Nuno "Nuno Santo" whilst leaving out the "Espirito". Equally, Hwang's appropriate family is Hee-Chan. Not "Hee", not "Chan", and definitely not the mildly stereotypical "Chang".

Hwang is the family name, Hee-Chan his given name. Family name comes first for Koreans. Most famous example is obviously the Kim family, Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il, Kim Jong-Un.

The Nuno one was ridiculous, still happens now. Not like he's been managing in England for over 4 years and is now in charge of one of the biggest clubs in the country. Jota as well, the Diogo/Diego stuff is bad enough but you'll still hear commentators calling him 'Yota' or 'Hota'. Oftentimes 2 commentators will use completely different pronunciations of his name while talking to each other on the same broadcast.

Jiménez is the one that irks me the most now though. It really isn't a tough name to pronounce and the guy is fucking iconic, how the hell hasn't it become common knowledge yet?

 

[PuntsWolf]

Too many people call him Himaynez. He’s not fucking French. Drives me mad.

As you say, it’s not hard. Change the J for a H and you’re really not far away without even trying. Instead of making an effort and being miles off.

Is David Jones on sky still calling Diogo, Diego or has he learnt it now he’s been at Liverpool a year.

 

[Banjo]

Is Chang offensive or is it because it’s not the name by which we should call him? I genuinely don’t know
If not I don’t think calling him Chang in error rather than Chan is any worse than calling someone named Davis, Davies or Clarke, Clark.
Are we looking for racism where racism doesn’t exist?

I mean, it just bears no resemblance to his name. His surname is Hwang. So it's either an inability to read/hear, or it's "Chang sounds like something he'd probably be called, let's go with that" - despite Chang being *Chinese*.

If (and this is being generous) it's a mistake because the second syllable of his first name is "chan", then it's still slightly weird to turn half a Korean first name into a Chinese surname. It would be like meeting a British person called "David", and deciding to call him "Vid" for short, only mistaking "Vid" for something that "sounds more British" like - I dunno - "Vic".

It's not about some evil racism. It's about total ignorance.

 

[Mel Evo]

Too many people call him Himaynez. He’s not fucking French. Drives me mad.

As you say, it’s not hard. Change the J for a H and you’re really not far away without even trying. Instead of making an effort and being miles off.

Is David Jones on sky still calling Diogo, Diego or has he learnt it now he’s been at Liverpool a year.

The variations of pronouncing Jiménez are pretty wild but, in fairness, it is a particularly counterintuitive pronunciation for English speakers. Putting the stress on the second syllable is hard and in all my time living in Spanish speaking countries it didn’t come easily to me. As an aside, and not that many people have to say it ever, but it’s a bit like Cádiz which gets the stress in the right place infrequently. Himaynez has a couple of errors for sure, but at least it gets the stress on the right place as a phonetic spelling.

Diego for Diogo is less forgivable though!

 

[PuntsWolf]

The variations of pronouncing Jiménez are pretty wild but, in fairness, it is a particularly counterintuitive pronunciation for English speakers. Putting the stress on the second syllable is hard and in all my time living in Spanish speaking countries it didn’t come easily to me. As an aside, and not that many people have to say it ever, but it’s a bit like Cádiz which gets the stress in the right place infrequently. Himaynez has a couple of errors for sure, but at least it gets the stress on the right place as a phonetic spelling.

Diego for Diogo is less forgivable though!

That’s all fair. But I’m not expecting people to be Spanish speakers. Stick to English (and not French), and it’s not too far away just without the stress on MEN. Youtube will literally tell you as a commentator to pronounce any word.

I’d much rather take Don Goodman pronouncing it normally in English than Mike Taylor or whoever calling him HiMAYnez

 

[Mel Evo]

But that is how it’s pronounced in fairness, with the stress on the ‘meh’ not the ‘hee’. It’s is tricky, but that’s Spanish, not French! S sound rather than soft z on the end if you want to go the full Mexican Whatever, language is always changing and I fully respect your right to be hacked off by commentators

The pronunciation thread - a stalwart of the international break. Roll on Veela.

 

[sycophantia]

Seems a lot of fuss about nothing to me, people mispronouncing names in a different language to their own (not talking about on purpose for cheap laffs/bantz)
Fuck me English people have been mispronouncing/misspelling my very English name all my life

 

[Mel Evo]

Seems a lot of fuss about nothing to me, people mispronouncing names in a different language to their own (not talking about on purpose for cheap laffs/bantz)
Fuck me English people have been mispronouncing/misspelling my very English name all my life

Fair point. I mean, there’s a line. With Spanish I reckon it’s the ‘paella line’. Even sticklers for correct pronunciation should feel a bit weird if they insisted on pronouncing it in an English restaurant as they would in Valencia, to the point that no one does!

 

[PuntsWolf]

But that is how it’s pronounced in fairness, with the stress on the ‘meh’ not the ‘hee’. It’s is tricky, but that’s Spanish, not French! S sound rather than soft z on the end if you want to go the full Mexican Whatever, language is always changing and I fully respect your right to be hacked off by commentators

The pronunciation thread - a stalwart of the international break. Roll on Veela.

It’s just the may part in a French soft ‘e’ way that pisses me off. It’s more ‘meh’ than ‘may’. That is all!

Stress away at the right bit Mr commentator but at least make the right noise!

From what I understand you either have lived/live in Spain and probably speak Spanish. So you have developed the tolerance to poor pronunciation or just understand the general complexities more. But I’m not that kind and I don’t speak much Spanish!

Fucking international breaks!

 

[AndyWolves]

Our top scorers last season had 5, HHC already has 3!

 

[Mel Evo]

Yep, lived and worked in Spain and South America so I (did) speak it. My wife would be chuckling at my claims to competence though as she is a the real deal as a Spanish teacher and translator! Been back in England for a good while now though.

I should say something about HHC… he’s got massive thighs but don’t you think he’s gone a size too small on his shorts anyway? If he keeps finding the net as he did on Saturday who cares. I know their keeper got stick, maybe rightly so, but at the time and watching back I did think they were unusually composed finishes. Bodes well.

 

[sycophantia]

Yep, lived and worked in Spain and South America so I (did) speak it. My wife would be chuckling at my claims to competence though as she is a the real deal as a Spanish teacher and translator! Been back in England for a good while now though.

I should say something about HHC… he’s got massive thighs but don’t you think he’s gone a size too small on his shorts anyway? If he keeps finding the net as he did on Saturday who cares. I know their keeper got stick, maybe rightly so, but at the time and watching back I did think they were unusually composed finishes. Bodes well.

Yeah thought the first one especially, picked his spot and concentrated on the angle and pace of his finish, didn't try and thrash it

 

[Mel Evo]

Seems to have played the full 90 in a 2-1 win today. Saving his goals for Villa though…

 

[Alan]

Hwang is the family name, Hee-Chan his given name. Family name comes first for Koreans. Most famous example is obviously the Kim family, Kim Il-Sung, Kim Jong-Il, Kim Jong-Un.

The Nuno one was ridiculous, still happens now. Not like he's been managing in England for over 4 years and is now in charge of one of the biggest clubs in the country. Jota as well, the Diogo/Diego stuff is bad enough but you'll still hear commentators calling him 'Yota' or 'Hota'. Oftentimes 2 commentators will use completely different pronunciations of his name while talking to each other on the same broadcast.

Jiménez is the one that irks me the most now though. It really isn't a tough name to pronounce and the guy is fucking iconic, how the hell hasn't it become common knowledge yet?

Cheers for the correction; I see it written as both Hwang Hee-Chan and Hee-Chan Hwang so hard to keep track of which is the Korean pattern and which is the western.

 

[Banjo]

Cheers for the correction; I see it written as both Hwang Hee-Chan and Hee-Chan Hwang so hard to keep track of which is the Korean pattern and which is the western.

So almost all Koreans have a one syllable surname followed by a two syllable first name:

손 (Son) 흥민 (Heung-min)
박 (Park) 지성 (Ji-sung)
설 (Seol) 기현 (Ki-hyeon)
황 (Hwang) 희찬 (Hee-chan)

I'm not sure why the Romanization puts that hyphen between the first and second syllable of Korean first names. It causes all sorts of confusion when coupled with the fact the surname comes first in Korea.

 

[The Bear]

Also, the given name is split into two syllables. The first bit is generational and shared by all of that generation in his family, the second part is their individual name.

So in Hee-Chan, Hee is his generational name and is shared by all his siblings, and Chan is his personal name.

Hwang literally means "yellow" , but I've read it can also mean "gift from God"
Hee means "happiness"
Chan means "bright"

The words can have lots of different meanings. But that's the literal translation of his Hanja (Chinese symbols) that make up his name - 黄喜燦

(yes I've been bored this morning!)