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Ukraine

MARKakaJIM said:
Russia definitely aren't the goodies here.
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Absolutely, we need to help Ukraine overcome this aggression but at the end of that, the Azov battalion and other volunteer military groups are seeking to overthrow their govt and install a dictatorship of some sort....they're not heroic underdogs. We don't want the the defence of Ukraine to be derailed by talk of a sizable minority of Nazi nutters
 
WolfMan said:
www.thenation.com

Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine

Five years after the Maidan uprising, anti-Semitism and fascist-inflected ultranationalism are rampant.
www.thenation.com www.thenation.com

This is a really good article on it mate. As ever the goodies Vs baddies narrative we're spoon fed doesn't stand up to scrutiny. It's quite concerning we're now arming these people to the teeth. Every time we meddle in other parts of the world I'm sure we just make things worse. The cynic in me thinks it all just comes down to money and the military industrial complex, someone's making a shit ton of money from all these weapons aren't they.
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I'll read the article when I get chance, thanks for posting.

Right now I see arming Azov as being the lesser of two evils. Russia shouldn't be allowed to do what they're doing whilst we stand idle.
 
Tredman said:
I’m going to take a wild stab in the dark and say the Jewish President of Ukraine is not a massive fan of right wing militias.
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That's why the Azov battalion hate him, tbh I'm surprised he hasn't already done something about them......maybe the extreme right wing factions aren't quite as powerful as some in the media would have us believe?
 
Interesting

"Blumenthal has broadcast on RT (formerly known as Russia Today) on many occasions.[10] In December 2015, during a trip to Moscow presumed by multiple sources to have been paid for by the Kremlin,[15][18] Blumenthal was a guest at RT's 10 Years On Air anniversary party attended by President Vladimir Putin, then-Lieutenant General Michael Flynn of the United States and English politician Ken Livingstone.[15][10][19] In an interview with Tucker Carlson on Fox News in November 2017, Blumenthal defended RT against "the charge that it’s Kremlin propaganda."[10][20] He has also contributed on multiple occasions to Sputnik radio,[18][21] as well as to Iran's Press TV[22][23] and China's CGTN.[24] Blumenthal founded The Grayzone website a month after his visit to Moscow.[3] In an October 2019 article for New Politics magazine, Gilbert Achcar wrote that Blumenthal's Grayzone, along with the World Socialist Web Site, has "the habit of demonizing all left-wing critics of Putin and the likes of Assad by describing them as 'agents of imperialism' or some equivalent".[25]"
 
AndyWolves said:
I'll read the article when I get chance, thanks for posting.

Right now I see arming Azov as being the lesser of two evils. Russia shouldn't be allowed to do what they're doing whilst we stand idle.
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Isn't that what we said when we armed Islamist militants in Afghanistan? That went well...

That said, in war...your enemy's enemy may be your friend for "strategic reasons" but if the east of Ukraine is given up in a peace deal, the likes of Azov won't go quietly into the night.
 
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Isn't that what we said when we armed Islamist militants in Afghanistan? That went well...

That said, in war...your enemy's enemy may be your friend for "strategic reasons" but if the east of Ukraine is given up in a peace deal, the likes of Azov won't go quietly into the night.
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Difficult one! I don't think there is an easy answer.

This is purely my view, but seeing how Russia have actively tried to destabilise NATO and the EU I'd be more concerned with them capturing Ukraine and getting all the gas / oil reserves along with putting themselves on the doorstep of NATO countries, than I would be with working with a relatively tiny (in comparison) group of neo-nazis to stop Russia.

As you say, any peace deal wouldn't necessarily stop Azov from existing.
 
AndyWolves said:
I think you're missing the context. My assumption would be that zelenskky didn't want to fight both Russia and some far-right groups so he got them onside.

The enemy of my enemy and all that.
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The tweet was embedded in an article I was reading, I was in the process of getting ready to go out so hadn't got through it all when I posted it to Tredman. I'd not scrolled through the blokes Twitter page feed before posting it.

Anyway I've got back and finished reading it now, and it seems well researched and credible to me 🤷🏻‍♂️. Be good to have a discussion about the merits or otherwise of what it's actually saying, rather than the person writing it. I'm not attached to it either way and would be happy for someone to point out where it's factually wrong, if it is.

 
WolfMan said:
The tweet was embedded in an article I was reading, I was in the process of getting ready to go out so hadn't got through it all when I posted it to Tredman. I'd not scrolled through the blokes Twitter page feed before posting it.

Anyway I've got back and finished reading it now, and it seems well researched and credible to me 🤷🏻‍♂️. Be good to have a discussion about the merits or otherwise of what it's actually saying, rather than the person writing it. I'm not attached to it either way and would be happy for someone to point out where it's factually wrong, if it is.

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The question for me is why Zelenskky did it assuming he did.

Is there anything that corroborates that story?
 
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