Stats and Analysis Thread

[big mean bunny]

Ah shame, at least it's a better trajectory than producing players who completely disappear when they leave and get no where near the higher leagues.

 

[AndyWolves]

He actually played more games after his red than he did before it.

Stood out at blues but not at qpr, but then QPR exploded anyway.

Agree he's probably not good enough for us at the moment, but should at least generate some spondoolas for us. Equally, could do a mediocre job when we get relegated

 

[MARKakaJIM]

We don't have the wing backs to play it, so unless we are signing 2 of those as well as the 2 centre halves, 2 central midfielders and centre forward plus additional squad fillers then it just needs putting in the bin

The service to and support of the wingbacks is a far bigger problem than the players themselves. They're constantly played into dead ends as a result of tediously slow build up which ends up with them having to transform into old school wingers and fashion crossing opportunities for themselves.

They're asked to stretch the play but it just leaves them isolated all the time, they don't receive the ball quickly enough to have great space to work with nor get team mates over to them quick enough to enable any interplay that would cause problems. They're sold down the river most of the time they're involved and forced to play safe passes back down the line more often than not as a result.

If the midfielders were willingly to commit into more advanced positions rather than safely hang back in quasi full back positions or the inside forwards actually had the bravery to show for a pass in a tight space maybe the wingbacks could try to prove their worth.

Far too much responsibility is forced onto those guys all the time, the central midfield should be the beating heart of your team, dictating most of your play, but as the horseshoe of doom often comes to pass, those guys aren't doing it, they vacate the battlefield.

 

[Tony Towner]

They can't cross, can't shoot, can't beat a man and don't score. They aren't wing backs

 

[MARKakaJIM]

They can't cross, can't shoot, can't beat a man and don't score. They aren't wing backs

They only really need to do one of those things if the rest of the team did their jobs too, could probably work on that if they weren't expected to do so much else to cover other deficiencies.

 

[big mean bunny]

Yeah with Mark on that. There are only about 5 players in the world who do all that from wingback/fullback, two at Liverpool and one at City. So it's a big ask.

 

[PuntsWolf]

Mmm dunno. Doc did alright at a few of them…

He did actually try and beat his man a bit even if he just did the same thing shifting it down the outside and smashing it into shins. At least it won a corner rather than just passing backwards.

Actually got in the box as well and his finishing wasn’t bad…

 

[Tony Towner]

Yeah with Mark on that. There are only about 5 players in the world who do all that from wingback/fullback, two at Liverpool and one at City. So it's a big ask.

I give you both of Villa's full backs as a starting point who would be more suited than any of ours. There are plenty of full backs who'd be better suited to playing wing back than any of ours without being Cancello.

 

[Johnny75]

Yeah with Mark on that. There are only about 5 players in the world who do all that from wingback/fullback, two at Liverpool and one at City. So it's a big ask.

R James, Chilwell, A Davies, Gosens and quite a few others.

I think RAN. can but needs to be more consistent.

 

[big mean bunny]

Reece James I considered but had missed his amount of goals this year but he just backs up my point in that he'd cost about 70-100mil?

Digne and Cash though aren't on that level. They have 3 goals 3 assists and I feel like both Ran and Semedo would have higher assists with actual bodies in the box.

Davies has 0 goals this year too from a check.

Forgotten his name but did anyone see the goal the Milan Wingback scored this week? Carried it from his own box!

 

[Johnny75]

Reece James I considered but had missed his amount of goals this year but he just backs up my point in that he'd cost about 70-100mil?

Digne and Cash though aren't on that level. They have 3 goals 3 assists and I feel like both Ran and Semedo would have higher assists with actual bodies in the box.

Davies has 0 goals this year too from a check.

Forgotten his name but did anyone see the goal the Milan Wingback scored this week? Carried it from his own box!

Theo Hernandez is another.

There are lots of players who could do the job it is up to the manager and recruitment team to get the right ones and play to their strengths.

I don't feel Lage and Semedo fit either bill.

 

[Tony Towner]

Digne and Cash though aren't on that level. They have 3 goals 3 assists and I feel like both Ran and Semedo would have higher assists with actual bodies in the box.

Thus proving my point as they aren't playing wing back for 90% of games. Cash has 3 goals and 3 assists, Digne 3 assists from less than half a season. Semedo has 0 goals and 1 assist from 25 games, because he isn't a wing back and won't ever be.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Maybe Villa's entire system of play is just more conducive to players creating and scoring chances rather than their individuals being better at it than Wolves?

 

[Tony Towner]

Or maybe I can watch a player and see what their strengths and weaknesses are? I'd suggest 90% of football supporters can, rather than seeking alternative reasons to be on brand

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The players themselves are far from the biggest problems with Wolves wingbacks. Chequebook management.

 

[Tony Towner]

Watch Villa's goal on Sunday. Semedo wouldn't be capable of that ball and RAN would try to beat the man before putting it in. It's fair to wonder if we'd have had anyone in the box though. Our entire formation this season is predicated on protecting the weaknesses of some and not exagerating the strengths of others. The impact of that is playing full backs not suited to wing back. RAN's best game of the season was against Liverpool where we played a flat 5 and his job was to be a defender. Semedo has had 4/5 one on ones this season and missed the lot, because it's not his game.

Play a back 4 and you are playing to their strengths not weaknesses

 

[MARKakaJIM]

What they're expected to do on the pitch can be changed without altering the number of centre halves. Playing a flat back four might reduce the number of times in a game that their flaws are exposed but it might not make them any more effective in contributing to the team overall.

Say you ditched Coady for another attacker now, played a 4231 instead. Neves and Moutinho still sit on the half way line, RAN and Semedo sit 20 yards deeper than they currently do. Your inside forwards have to pull wide as proper wingers and you're left with 6 men behind the ball, a 4 man attack and max 2 people in the box to aim for. Is that really any better than what happens now?

There's so much more nuance than a paper formation. Wolves biggest problem is that players constantly look like they've never played together before, there's little if any movement off the ball which restricts the ability to play passes quickly. The interactions, or lack there of, between players cripple each and every one of them individually. Changing formation doesn't automatically fix that, it's a mental issue first and foremost in my eyes.

 

[AndyWolves]

A full back provides an additional attacking outlet, a wingback provides a fundamental attacking outlet.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

A full back provides an additional attacking outlet, a wingback provides a fundamental attacking outlet.

Again, more nuance than that.

Robertson and Alexander-Arnold offer as much, if not more, attacking purpose than wingbacks would it most other teams. There are multiple ways to play every single formation, you can ask different things of the same position from one shape to another, one team to another.

Football tactics are far more complex than the way you arrange the players names on a piece of paper at 2pm.

 

[AndyWolves]

Again, more nuance than that.

Robertson and Alexander-Arnold offer as much, if not more, attacking purpose than wingbacks would it most other teams. There are multiple ways to play every single formation, you can ask different things of the same position from one shape to another, one team to another.

Football tactics are far more complex than the way you arrange the players names on a piece of paper at 2pm.

Not really, Semedo and RAN are better at being defenders than attackers.

It's like saying you could put Boly in attack and he'd be shit because of the players around him, not because Boly would be shit in attack.