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Political Compass

Penk Wolf said:
WTD was a nightmare for our engineers when working in Dublin. Instead of them getting on with the job they were sitting in a hotel twiddling their thumbs and were away from their families for longer than they needed to be.

They were also unhappy that they couldn't work Sundays and earn double time.
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again my experiences with the WTD are all about ensuring welfare of staff and preventing illness , stress and more importantly , mistakes caused by overwork. Why would you want to opt out other than to make money through overtime?
 
Cyber-_-man said:
again my experiences with the WTD are all about ensuring welfare of staff and preventing illness , stress and more importantly , mistakes caused by overwork. Why would you want to opt out other than to make money through overtime?
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I think you've answered your own question.
 
Penk Wolf said:
I think you've answered your own question.
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OK. So I repeat you can't have it both ways. I would love more money but want to be alive to enjoy it. 40 of my former colleagues did not live to 65 so I have always put a high value on work life balance for me and my staff. I appreciate that its harder nowadays but my generation didn't have the minimum wage. I guess its priorities. But again, I can't see how you can have it both ways.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
OK. So I repeat you can't have it both ways. I would love more money but want to be alive to enjoy it. 40 of my former colleagues did not live to 65 so I have always put a high value on work life balance for me and my staff. I appreciate that its harder nowadays but my generation didn't have the minimum wage. I guess its priorities. But again, I can't see how you can have it both ways.
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I'm not really sure what your point is, some want to earn more money, some don't. Some of our engineers work weekends as they want the extra money, some don't because they'd rather have the weekend to theirselves.
 
Plus, on checking with my wife who was a casualty nurse for many years, all casualty staff were encouraged to opt out "or the SERVICE will suffer".

Your comment on additional money being the cause is crass, inaccurate and deeply unfair.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
OK. So I repeat you can't have it both ways. I would love more money but want to be alive to enjoy it. 40 of my former colleagues did not live to 65 so I have always put a high value on work life balance for me and my staff. I appreciate that its harder nowadays but my generation didn't have the minimum wage. I guess its priorities. But again, I can't see how you can have it both ways.
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No but it is free will. Why would you want to curtail that?
 
The image of a thoracic surgeon dropping his instruments and walking out of theatre flipping the bird with his patient still on the table because it's the end of their shift is hilarious.

Nowadays I actually live in shared accommodation behind Derby Community Hospital and we regularly have nurses and other medicinal professionals stay here for DCH and the main hospital a short drive away. none of them complain about the hours they log, they made that choice but it's telling I'll sometimes go weeks at a time without seeing some of them.

Nurses and doctors are naturally altruistic, they won't be thinking of the overtime when they stay on for hours on end it'll be how they can help. Their patients and their colleagues.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Plus, on checking with my wife who was a casualty nurse for many years, all casualty staff were encouraged to opt out "or the SERVICE will suffer".

Your comment on additional money being the cause is crass, inaccurate and deeply unfair.
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I read that emergency services and police are automatically exempt. Would casualty nurse fall into that category?
 
No - not quite. Ambulance staff would but casualty nurses and doctors aren't classed as emergency services by the strict definition
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Never heard of the Hippocratic Oath have you?

The NHS staff don't just go home when their hours are up ffs.
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Duh don't treat me like an idiot. Staying to do your duty in an emergency is not what I am talking about and you know it. I cannot believe the majority of the health service are being fored to opt out to work outside the working time directive of 48 hours a week average over 17 weeks especially those on salary. Additionally why do so many nurses also work on the bank for better pay rates? That has fuck all to do with the Hippocratic oath and everything to do about money. Which is fine. Just don't bleat you're tired!

Unions would be all over it in an instant. Police aren't exempt. http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Justice/...cue/police-scotland/Circulars/2002/Circular-8 makes no difference that this one comes from Scotland. Police are subject to the extingenciues of duty so in an emergency stay and do their duty. Just not for 48 hours over 17 weeks. The only reason too opt out is to make money as far as I can see it. No one has shown me otherwise. So I repeat that I fail to see why you would opt out for any reason other than making money.

Junior doctors doget screwed arsehole to breakfast time but aren't junior doctors for long. That's the only example I can think of where long hours and opt outs have nothing to do with making money in most instances. As for pay training specialist doctors get 30 to 48 k and once qualified 70k.So the long hours are like an investment for the future and I get that.

But if you're a nurse working shifts plus one day on the bank and opting out of the wtd then it does appear to be a choice based as much on money as extingencies of duty or Hippocratic oath
 
IIRC after 5 years at Medical School Junior doctors have to do minimum 4 years to become a GP and eight to become a Consultant?

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leedswolf said:
IIRC after 5 years at Medical School Junior doctors have to do minimum 4 years to become a GP and eight to become a Consultant?

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4 years is fucked about then. Medical school is not wtd scope. Good rewards after 4 years though.
 
You just haven't got a clue so I see no point in even engaging with you on this nonsense
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
You just haven't got a clue so I see no point in even engaging with you on this nonsense
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That seems to be your go to phrase when you have a different view. I just think you like being contrary then fail to offer in depth evidence to back it up. I asked you as you actually worked in the health service. But you replied to the extreme in an attempt to ridicule my view. Don't debate then. You then can't change my view despite being from within.
 
leedswolf said:
I haven't a clue what you are trying to argue?
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I am so sorry you're right. You would need to go back ages in the thread to find it. I backed a 32 hour week backed by universal basic income. Boozad pointed out he worked 61 ! I questioned why and if it was legal and my view was that it was financially motivated across the board. Paddington cited the health service. Others also disagreed but failed to give me enough evidence to change my opinion.
 
I got that. I haven't a clue about your point in your specific post that I replied to.
 
ffs. Don't accuse me of not debating when you are deliberately avoiding the post I made that answers your point. Casualty Nurses were TOLD to opt out or the SERVICE would suffer. So your bleating and money point is completely shot. I know because I just asked someone who had to sign the forms at the time.
 
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