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Other games that affect us thread....

And we have spunked it at home to our rivals having drawn with Leicester, Man U, Sheff Utd and lost to Chelsea Liverpool Arsenal.

We did beat Man City and Everton but its small consolation. That said winning our last two games will give us over 60 points so we cant be ungrateful. Its just a bugger that we may not make it after a whole year of play.
 
sycophantia said:
I would say our main issue compared to the other top teams this season has been our record in the goals scored column and thats something I assume Nuno will be looking to address next season. Not easy obviously especially if we want to keep our strong defensive record but its something we need to look at. Don't really know how you achieve that, whether its just tinkering with our system/game plans, new players in or a whole new style. Looking forward to how we do it
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That and conceding the first goal. Raul needs a proper back up.
 
Tony Towner said:
Agreed, that's the step up required. Approach most home games like we did against Everton then we'd get more points imo.
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exactly. You cant have one shot on target in a home game against any team if you harbour ambitions of challenging . In 4 games since lockdown we managed fewer shots on target than we managed in one half v Everton.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
draws with Southampton (ONCE) Newcastle Burnley Brighton all twice Palace once. All below us. Its still an issue. even if it was win one lose one we would have more points
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Yes but unless someone has a freakish 100+ point season this happens to literally every team at some point.

United will finish above us and have some even worse results against the bottom half. Burnley are two points behind us, not sure you can count them.

We aren't challenging for the top four principally as we aren't at that level, though there are of course individual games/moments that you can look at.
 
Is 4 points from Southampton really that bad a return? Not sure why that has been used as an example of our failings, Cyber has used it often before and he did last year too. They're a good side.

I'm not saying that it is not an issue but these things do happen. Sometimes we have deserved much more based on how we play, other times have been fucked pretty hard by decisions by the officials. Not sure it is fair to look criticise the results in the general fashion, you need to look at individual games in more detail. I think Man United have dropped points to every team below them but Norwich and Brighton (lost to 5 of the bottom 8 too), it's not exclusive to us.
 
I have looked at the big six and added Leicester and Everton. Sheff United are newly promoted. In the two years we have been back these are the combined home records for 2018 to now of those clubs
Leicester 19w 7 d 11 defeats 64 points
Arsenal 23 9 5 78 points
Man Uutd 20 12 5 72 points
Chelsea 22 11 4 77 points
Everton 18 11 8 65 points
Spurs 24 5 9 77 points
Wolves 17 8 9 59 points

We are therefore 5 points worse than Leicester and 19 worse than Arsenal at home at that two season period. It therefore is pretty much exclusive to us of the team's we want to be challenging. Stop dropping home points to rivals . It's a simple solution for me. Am I missing something? No point showing you city and Liverpool as they are streets ahead

Burnley is 15 5 18 which is worse but they have not been in the top 8 or 9 for two seasons.
 
Cyber has a point, within reason. But just loses the credibility the way he goes about it. You can’t just look at the table and say “these are all below us we should have beat them all”. Yes we’ve drawn too many games, conceded first too many times, and maybe not scored enough goals. But football doesn’t work in a way that the best team always wins, that’s why you have a table and the better teams win more.

The table is also fluid, when we were drawing to Saints, Burnley, Palace, losing to Everton, they were probably around or above us in the table.

We’ve done well against “the shit” this year. As I said our issue has been conceding the first goal to better organised teams (Sheff Utd, Newcastle, Saints, Burnley, Palace, Arsenal) and we aren’t a team who is likely to score 2 from behind very often. As a result we’ve ended up being bottom of the first half table, near top of second half, “most points from losing positions” but this has just been turning those losses into draws, which if done regularly means you miss out on the top places.

Our whole game plan in ruined when we concede the first goal. We need to either start playing more aggressively from the off and get the first goal or stop giving sloppy ones away. Preferably both. But that’s the aim for next season now.
 
You had me at Cyber has a point.

It went downhill from there [emoji1787][emoji1787]
 
PuntsWolf said:
Cyber has a point, within reason. But just loses the credibility the way he goes about it. You can’t just look at the table and say “these are all below us we should have beat them all”. Yes we’ve drawn too many games, conceded first too many times, and maybe not scored enough goals. But football doesn’t work in a way that the best team always wins, that’s why you have a table and the better teams win more.

The table is also fluid, when we were drawing to Saints, Burnley, Palace, losing to Everton, they were probably around or above us in the table.

We’ve done well against “the shit” this year. As I said our issue has been conceding the first goal to better organised teams (Sheff Utd, Newcastle, Saints, Burnley, Palace, Arsenal) and we aren’t a team who is likely to score 2 from behind very often. As a result we’ve ended up being bottom of the first half table, near top of second half, “most points from losing positions” but this has just been turning those losses into draws, which if done regularly means you miss out on the top places.

Our whole game plan in ruined when we concede the first goal. We need to either start playing more aggressively from the off and get the first goal or stop giving sloppy ones away. Preferably both. But that’s the aim for next season now.
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This doesn't take into account the effect that VAR has had on us this season... We won all 6 points vs Leicester, for example, yet only got 2 points total. A ball headed at close range onto the upper part of an arm. The heel, no, a trailing stud on the bottom of a boot, running away from goal, is offside.
Just a reverse of those two decisions and we would currently be level on points with Leicester with a game in hand and guaranteed one of the European spots.
Small margins make all the difference.
Yes I know other teams have had decisions go against them and can point to points "stolen from them" but we seem to have had a lot of those this season.
 
darlowolf64 said:
This doesn't take into account the effect that VAR has had on us this season... We won all 6 points vs Leicester, for example, yet only got 2 points total. A ball headed at close range onto the upper part of an arm. The heel, no, a trailing stud on the bottom of a boot, running away from goal, is offside.
Just a reverse of those two decisions and we would currently be level on points with Leicester with a game in hand and guaranteed one of the European spots.
Small margins make all the difference.
Yes I know other teams have had decisions go against them and can point to points "stolen from them" but we seem to have had a lot of those this season.
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I just don't see that you can say that categorically. Let's say Donk's goal had counted on the first day of the season. Would it have stayed 1-0? We have no way of knowing. Clearly VAR hasn't done us (and Sheffield United) any favours this season, but you can't definitively count the points.

By and large I think Cyber makes a good point. We have been too cautious. For me, we simply don't get enough men in the box when we're attacking. If I could change one thing in Nuno's tactical approach it would be that.
 
Norman Deeley said:
I just don't see that you can say that categorically. Let's say Donk's goal had counted on the first day of the season. Would it have stayed 1-0? We have no way of knowing. Clearly VAR hasn't done us (and Sheffield United) any favours this season, but you can't definitively count the points.

By and large I think Cyber makes a good point. We have been too cautious. For me, we simply don't get enough men in the box when we're attacking. If I could change one thing in Nuno's tactical approach it would be that.
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I was there, I know it's a long time ago, but I still think I can remember the game(I am getting old though)... There was only one team going to win from there, we looked really solid and they didn't have much going forward.
 
Unless the VAR is in the last few minutes I don't think you can say how the game would have panned out. I don't think there's any games where a VAR overturn has happened against us that late has there? Obviously there was Burnley where it didn't come to our assistance, but the decision was given on the pitch.

The best example is Liverpool away, they managed that second half, more interested in keeping us at arms length than attacking us knowing our strength was on the break. I doubt that would have been the game plan if the Neto goal had stood, so I don't think that game ends 1-1 for instance.

No doubt we have been on the wrong side of VAR this season and the old decisions balance themselves out adage hasn't applied to us, I just don't think you can say, it's 2 points here, 1 point there with any certainty.
 
2pt from 2 games from newcastle, burnley, brighton
Watford, everton losses, palace draw
1pt from 2 games vs sheffield isnt great either.
Its not exactly criticism, but if we are aiming to be top 6 we have to stop dropping so many points
 
Then presumably we lose twice to City, Leicester and Utd as they are above us?
 
FWIW the Southampton draw was the week before they got shellacked by Leicester - not related, obviously, but they were not in good form at that time. Hassenhuttl has turned them around since then though, evidently - ironically we beat them when it was more difficult to do so.

As you were..
 
The Bion said:
FWIW the Southampton draw was the week before they got shellacked by Leicester - not related, obviously, but they were not in good form at that time. Hassenhuttl has turned them around since then though, evidently - ironically we beat them when it was more difficult to do so.

As you were..
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Exactly. As counter attacking counter punching football suits us away from home. Look at saints home form. They don't know how to play at home at the moment.
 
Top 7 confirmed.

At least the same league position as last season, more points, and a European campaign on top. Cracking.
 
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