Keir Starmer at it again..

[leedswolf]

Big barbie for this afternoon for Straya day

Enjoy.

 

[leedswolf]

Not really. If the argument is 'We should move to the left in order to win' then that has literally never worked. Not once.

45, 64 and 74?

 

[visage]

I just don't know why I, as someone who believes in progressive policies, would vote for the current Labour Party. Literally no reason.

Don't then.

Political parties can't appeal to everyone, so there's always a trade off.

Same for voters. You have to look at what's in offer, consider the outcomes, then use your vote accordingly. And if you think protesting against Labour justifies Nigel Farage as PM then go for it. It's your choice.

Just like those who decided a Trump presidency was ok because Harris wasnt giving them 100% of what they wanted.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Not really. If the argument is 'We should move to the left in order to win' then that has literally never worked. Not once.

Well my argument is that Labour have also lost plenty of elections from the centre too, more in fact.

There isn’t a single ideological setting that guarantees victory.

2017 is the awkward case here: second-highest Labour vote share since the 1960s. They didn’t win, but it clearly shows that “move left = electoral suicide” isn’t a cast iron either.

What’s changed now is the political landscape itself. We’re no longer in a neat Labour-vs-Tory world. A genuinely right-wing party has never looked as likely to win serious an election as Reform do right now. That alone tells you the old rules don’t apply.

Elections are now about fragmentation, credibility and who looks capable of governing in a much messier system. Blair won from the centre because the conditions were right then. Corbyn lost because he wasn’t credible to enough voters, not because every progressive policy is toxic.

If politics were still just “normal Tory ideology vs normal Labour ideology”, Reform wouldn’t be polling where they are. The world’s moved on.

 

[visage]

If we had PR I'd agree, but we don't.

So in a world where the next PM is Starmer or Farage, I'll pick Starmer and sleep just fine.

 

[YoungWolf]

I’m not sure we are even going to get that choice, and if we do, he’ll lose

 

[Templeton Peck]

I’m not sure we are even going to get that choice, and if we do, he’ll lose

Course he will. No point going for diet coke when you can get the real thing.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Don't then.

Political parties can't appeal to everyone, so there's always a trade off.

Same for voters. You have to look at what's in offer, consider the outcomes, then use your vote accordingly. And if you think protesting against Labour justifies Nigel Farage as PM then go for it. It's your choice.

Just like those who decided a Trump presidency was ok because Harris wasnt giving them 100% of what they wanted.

Harris wasn't giving them anything of what they wanted. Hopefully they've learned their lesson but I doubt it.

 

[visage]

The left had what they wanted in 2015 and 2017. We got Theresa May and Boris Johnson.

Maybe Jeremy wasn't quite left wing enough?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

If we had PR I'd agree, but we don't.

So in a world where the next PM is Starmer or Farage, I'll pick Starmer and sleep just fine.

Did you vote for Corbyn in 17 and 19?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

More pertinently, did the centre?

 

[leedswolf]

‘Crash & Burnham’: what the UK papers say as Labour blocks Andy Burnham’s byelection bid

The British papers are in agreement that Keir Starmer faces a likely backlash from unhappy Labour MPs and members

www.theguardian.com

 

[Templeton Peck]

View attachment 15830

‘Crash & Burnham’: what the UK papers say as Labour blocks Andy Burnham’s byelection bid

The British papers are in agreement that Keir Starmer faces a likely backlash from unhappy Labour MPs and members

www.theguardian.com

Of course. Win win for Burnham.

 

[visage]

Did you vote for Corbyn in 17 and 19?

No, but I live in a Tory/LD marginal where Labour get about 5 votes.

If I lived in a Labour/Tory marginal it would have been a very hard decision between voting Labour or abstaining.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Don't then.

Political parties can't appeal to everyone, so there's always a trade off.

Same for voters. You have to look at what's in offer, consider the outcomes, then use your vote accordingly. And if you think protesting against Labour justifies Nigel Farage as PM then go for it. It's your choice.

Just like those who decided a Trump presidency was ok because Harris wasnt giving them 100% of what they wanted.

I'm not voting Green to protest against Labour, I'm voting Green because I like their policies.

 

[EdgeOfTheAlps]

Don't then.

Political parties can't appeal to everyone, so there's always a trade off.

Same for voters. You have to look at what's in offer, consider the outcomes, then use your vote accordingly. And if you think protesting against Labour justifies Nigel Farage as PM then go for it. It's your choice.

Just like those who decided a Trump presidency was ok because Harris wasnt giving them 100% of what they wanted.

Labour is firmly of the centre now and are getting trounced in the polls because people are sick as business as usual as their lives and the country they see is getting progressively worse.

The extreme right are on course to win the next election, and the once centre-right party has aligned itself with Reform in all but name.

All you seem to say on repeat is that labour cant move to the left, so what is your opinion, should Labour become the new one-nation Tories now they have been told to fuck off by Badenoch, and if so where does that left centre-left or left leaning voters?

 

[Tony Towner]

Labour is firmly of the centre now and are getting trounced in the polls because people are sick as business as usual as their lives and the country they see is getting progressively worse.

The extreme right are on course to win the next election, and the once centre-right party has aligned itself with Reform in all but name.

All you seem to say on repeat is that labour cant move to the left, so what is your opinion, should Labour become the new one-nation Tories now they have been told to fuck off by Badenoch, and if so where does that left centre-left or left leaning voters?

Labour are afraid to have the difficult conversations with their electorate around immigration. That goes back to Blair, peaks at Corbyn and has been continued by Starmer. Ultimately it enables Farage to swoop in on their traditional territory.

 

[Templeton Peck]

https://twitter.com/x/status/2016671779834524013

He once promised to abolish tuition fees.

 

[Tredman]

Its a tax and essentially a bet on being able to earn more in the future. We should just do away with the term loan.

 

[lemonjelly]

yeah, doesn't work as any other loan. repayments are 9% of income above 21k (might be over 21k now?) and anything outstanding is wiped after 30 years.
Most people will not repay most of their student loan.