How do we compare to...

[Deutsch Wolf]

The following teams we had who went down, with 33 and 25 points respectively:

Regular teams listed once we got to around this stage, all windows closed and the (mostly) first choice team basically settled:

2003/04:

-----------------Jones-------------------

Irwin-------Butler-------Craddock----Naylor

---------Cameron---Ince---Rae-------------

--------Camara-----Cort-----Kennedy----------

2011/12:

--------------Hennessey-----------------------

Zubar--------Johnson-----Bassong-------Ward

Kightly-------Henry-------O'Hara------Jarvis

---------------Fletcher-----Doyle-------------

2024/25:

------------------Sa----------------------

---------Doherty---Agbadou---Toti---------

Semedo-----André-----J Gomes-----Ait-Nouri

------Guedes----Strand Larsen---Cunha---------

 

[jd1981]

For attitude these lot are the worst

 

[Tony Towner]

On a player for player basis this squad is comfortably the best, but the quality of the PL between 7th and 15th is also a lot higher as we're seeing with the promoted sides being bottom 3ish every season

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

03/04 had Miller, Iversen or Ganea who could also play up front (also Blake and Sturridge but they were both permanently knackered by then). All better than our er, 0 back up genuine strikers that we have now.

 

[Tredman]

I’d have the 2004 side as being better than this.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I’d have the 2004 side as being better than this.

Horror, horror horror start of 2 points from 7 games.

Then got 31 from 31.

Are we going to match that? I wouldn't put £1 on it.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You can piece together an actual semi-good team across the three squads:

------------------Hennessey-----------------

Semedo--------Craddock----Agbadou---Ait-Nouri

-----------J Gomes----André----Rae------------

---------Camara------Fletcher-----Cunha----------

Subs: Sa, Berra, Toti, Foley, Henry, Ince, Kightly, Jarvis, Strand Larsen

 

[jd1981]

Very rabbit in the headlights in the August/ September of 2003.
We may have had a chance had we not conceded that late goal at City and that Easter Monday debacle v Bolton.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Very rabbit in the headlights in the August/ September of 2003.
We may have had a chance had we not conceded that late goal at City and that Easter Monday debacle v Bolton.

I gave up with the Villa/Southampton home games before that tbh. Shambles.

Everton finished 17th but massively came off the gas knowing they were safe (won 1 of their last 10 and 0 of their last 6, and lost all the last 4). They definitely didn't approach the game at Molineux as if there was loads still on the line (we won and still effectively went down that day). They still got 39 points, City were on 41 above them and everyone else above them was 44 or better.

 

[KiwiWolf61]

On a player for player basis this squad is comfortably the best, but the quality of the PL between 7th and 15th is also a lot higher as we're seeing with the promoted sides being bottom 3ish every season

I couldn't agree more on both points.

For all the faults of the 03/04 side/season (i.e. a manager not up to PL standard, poor investment prior to the season starting etc etc) I have more time and affection for that side than the other 2.

You generally couldn't fault them for effort, and as Dan said 2 pts from the first 7 games was a woeful start (also only one goal scored) yet they managed 31 points from the remaining 31 games.

Alex Rae had an absolutely outstanding season - he should have been the player of the season, not that snake Camara (despite his football talents).

Also 03/04 was without 3 genuine first team starters in Murray, Lescott and Ndah (I have always rated Ndah as a real talent but crocked with horrible injuries - if he could have played we wouldn't have needed Camara).

Fans can be very forgiving if the effort is there.

In 11/12 that period from late 2011 onwards was abysmal plus the team was full of cliques and the new signings in Johnson and O'Hara were toxic which was replicated the following season in 12/13.

 

[Tony Towner]

I couldn't agree more on both points.

For all the faults of the 03/04 side/season (i.e. a manager not up to PL standard, poor investment prior to the season starting etc etc) I have more time and affection for that side than the other 2.

You generally couldn't fault them for effort, and as Dan said 2 pts from the first 7 games was a woeful start (also only one goal scored) yet they managed 31 points from the remaining 31 games.

Alex Rae had an absolutely outstanding season - he should have been the player of the season, not that snake Camara (despite his football talents).

Also 03/04 was without 3 genuine first team starters in Murray, Lescott and Ndah (I have always rated Ndah as a real talent but crocked with horrible injuries - if he could have played we wouldn't have needed Camara).

Fans can be very forgiving if the effort is there.

In 11/12 that period from late 2011 onwards was abysmal plus the team was full of cliques and the new signings in Johnson and O'Hara were toxic which was replicated the following season in 12/13.

Yeah that's understandable. Of the team Deutsch put up 7 were with us in the promotion year so have that fondness associated to them, 5 of the 12/13 side were, plus the likes of Foley, SEB and Berra. We only have Doherty from any of the 3 seasons of Nuno we look back fondly one. There are individual games and moments, but ultimately everyone else has been with the team through relegation battles and long winless streaks.

As an aside some of the 08/09 promotion winning team are pretty bitter towards the 03/04 team, notably Henry as they feel they accomplished more, but are loved by the fans less

 

[KiwiWolf61]

I suppose the 03/04 team represented the achievement of finally getting back to the top tier after 19 seasons plus the unforgettable emotional high of the Play Off Final win against Sheffield United.

Unfortunately Mick's tenure in the PL was pretty turgid - effective in 09/10, more entertaining and a rollercoaster ride in 10/11 but it all fell apart in 11/12. Even in the promotion season of 08/09 the 2nd half of the season was very workmanlike against the excitement generated in the first half of the season.

 

[jd1981]

Hindsight is great however MM probably should’ve been replaced in the summer of 2011.
The way the last few weeks panned out at the end of the 10/11 season gave a false illusion that things were just fine.
Beating Albion always keeps the fans sweet and the away win at Sunderland, the rollercoaster of the last day covered up the dreadful display v Blackburn.
Remember walking away from the ground that day elated until I got back to the car at peel Street then the realisation that this was just how things were going to be going forward unless things changed.

 

[AndyWolves]

Hindsight is great however MM probably should’ve been replaced in the summer of 2011.
The way the last few weeks panned out at the end of the 10/11 season gave a false illusion that things were just fine.
Beating Albion always keeps the fans sweet and the away win at Sunderland, the rollercoaster of the last day covered up the dreadful display v Blackburn.
Remember walking away from the ground that day elated until I got back to the car at peel Street then the realisation that this was just how things were going to be going forward unless things changed.

Didn't we start the next season on fire? or am i mis-remembering things

 

[Sniffer]

Top of the table after 3, due to an early kick off at Villa in the 3rd. We weren’t later that day.

 

[jd1981]

Didn't we start the next season on fire? or am i mis-remembering things

Won 2 drew 1 then lost to spurs and then got spanked by QPR. Beat Blackburn opening day who were shocking.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

Won 2 drew 1 then lost to spurs and then got spanked by QPR. Beat Blackburn opening day who were shocking.

I was at that Blackburn match. RoJo looked really good and I thought we’d made a great signing…

 

[Tony Towner]

Swansea was when he should have been sacked. He'd lost a large rump of the fans after that, similar to GON after Brentford. Our whole strategy that season was similar to this, the 3 promoted teams are crap so we'll be alright.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Swansea was when he should have been sacked. He'd lost a large rump of the fans after that, similar to GON after Brentford. Our whole strategy that season was similar to this, the 3 promoted teams are crap so we'll be alright.

It think at the start of the season the club were hoping/expecting us stay up comfortably.

 

[Wilf Wolf]

Swansea was when he should have been sacked. He'd lost a large rump of the fans after that, similar to GON after Brentford. Our whole strategy that season was similar to this, the 3 promoted teams are crap so we'll be alright.

Ironic that Sam Vokes biggest contribution in his time here was keeping MM in a job. At 80mins and 0-2 Mick was on very, very thin ice.