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Climate Change Debate

Tyrannosaurus Dan said:
On the flip side, I don't live in a city but do live on a busy road. I don't particularly enjoy me and my kids breathing in exhaust fumes from a constant flow of traffic coming past us as we walk to school. It's horrible and it blows my mind that in the year 2023 most cars still run on petrol or diesel.

However, if you are going to try to restrict car access to city centres then it would be a good idea to also have a functioning and affordable public transport system.
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Absolutely.

The initial central London congestion charge is very popular - particularly amongst the wealthy (who can go electric had have reduced traffic themselves) and also those who can’t afford cars who can get about easily anyway. I don’t think anyone actually wants shitty exhaust smoke anywhere.

The motorist with modest means in an older car is already getting hammered with highest rate of road fund licence anyway. They will be the first out of the door so to speak. If we’re shrugging our shoulders about that and leaving the roads to the wealthier then fair enough. It’s just not something I’m comfortable with to be honest.
 
by all accounts the clean air zone is in operation in birmingham, but thousands of people simply don't pay the levy. I am unsure as to how the council are enforcing it.
 
I have a 68 plate diesel and apparently I don't need to pay to enter the clean air zone. Absolutely bonkers 😂
 
Your engine meets Euro6 ES then. So produce a lot less pollution than an older diesel (produced 2015 or before I think).

Even better if you have to put Ad-Blu in as well.
 
These pass the ULEZ test as well, that’s the normal amount of smoke from them, they’re old two stroke engined trabantsBC8B82FD-7069-4EA7-B4D0-D4F8747161D8.png
 
Forgive my pedantry here, but this is my area of expertise, having worked in vehicle emission control for more years than I care to remember. A 68 plate diesel, and indeed my 64 plate, will meet the latest emissions regulations, Euro 6. There isn’t any viable way of restricting entry to the ULEZ to cleaner vehicles, even though many will be, as the detailed emissions won’t be on any available database. You could allow BEVs only, but this would be commercially restrictive. The real bad news is that the proposed Euro 7 regulations don’t, for the most part, restrict emissions any further.

On Kenny’s point, AdBlue doesn’t reduce emissions further, it’s just part of a technology that allows larger cars to meet the standards.
 
I think it's clear from the way manufacturers are hurling themselves into the EV game that we've passed the tipping point there. Only a matter of time before combustion engines in cars elicit the same type of reaction that a stick shift does with the yoot of today (accepting that manuals are still fairly common over there).
 
There’s no doubt that BEVs will eventually account for the majority of passenger vehicles. The remaining questions are how long will it take, will there be any competitive technologies, such as FCEVs, and what will happen with commercial vehicles. The real tipping point will be when the cost penalty for a new vehicle, currently around £10k in the UK, is overcome.
 
Talking to people around here the tipping point is when the punitive legislation outstrips your financial ability to stay afloat and maintain car ownership - that point for many is effectively here. The new legislation will force more polluting cars off the road but many of those drivers will not have the resources to upgrade and will have to kiss goodbye to car ownership altogether. That has its advantages but at the risk of labouring the point, I think we’re supposed to be closing wealth gaps not amplifying them.
 
Most post-2005 petrol cars are able to enter the ULEZ. I appreciate it’s a problem for some, but not many. Far outweighed by the improvements in air quality, with the associated health impacts, which will have most benefit for the less well off. You’ll be pleased to know that Cambridge is also in consultation about a low emissions zone.
 
Cambridge wanted a congestion charge decades ago, that morphed into a low emission zone to make it more palatable.

I think you have to look to Oxford’s plans for the ZERO emission zone and dividing the city into sections to see the future.

Older petrol engine cars may still be allowed in the current ulez, but they will still be the next to get bulleted with the same unintended consequences.
 
I get the emissions stuff, and capitalism needs you to keep buying things, but isn’t it greener to keep older cars going than buying new ones every three years when the lease expires?
I know they’re not as fuel efficient as some newer cars, but on a par with others, not really as safe as newer cars, but must be beneficial numbers wise, I’m not talking a 1960s MG or 70s cortina, but something like an 05 plate fiesta
 
Only if you’re not bothered about the health effects from the shitty old gas guzzler.
 
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Keef said:
I get the emissions stuff, and capitalism needs you to keep buying things, but isn’t it greener to keep older cars going than buying new ones every three years when the lease expires?
I know they’re not as fuel efficient as some newer cars, but on a par with others, not really as safe as newer cars, but must be beneficial numbers wise, I’m not talking a 1960s MG or 70s cortina, but something like an 05 plate fiesta
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I've wondered this, whether the end-to-end impact on the environment is less if I just keep my current relatively efficient car
 
Keef said:
I get the emissions stuff, and capitalism needs you to keep buying things, but isn’t it greener to keep older cars going than buying new ones every three years when the lease expires?
I know they’re not as fuel efficient as some newer cars, but on a par with others, not really as safe as newer cars, but must be beneficial numbers wise, I’m not talking a 1960s MG or 70s cortina, but something like an 05 plate fiesta
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There are companies out there that are converting old cars to electric vehicles. Expensive but if you have an expensive car probably worth it.

I think hydrogen will be the game changer with both new and used cars as it will be cheaper to swap out the engines/ drive train than wait for new parts.
 
Johnny75 said:
There are companies out there that are converting old cars to electric vehicles. Expensive but if you have an expensive car probably worth it.

I think hydrogen will be the game changer with both new and used cars as it will be cheaper to swap out the engines/ drive train than wait for new parts.
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The move to batteries is too far advanced for hydrogen to be the main solution for automotive. It will play a part, quite possibly for retrofit as you suggest. Green hydrogen is some years off, and in my mind blue (from fossil fuels with carbon capture) hydrogen needs to act as a transition to that. The distribution system then needs to be developed, but that's solvable. Hydrogen has to be part of the bigger picture, not least because it is difficult to replace as a raw material.
 
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