Burnley 2-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[redvictor]

All depends on whatever the Government decide but don't rule it out.

If it happens I hope Nuno gets on the first flight that takes him to his family.

100% agree on that.

 

[redvictor]

On Semedo i'm in the he's not earning his corn yet camp, but i'm sure he's a clever enough player to have the stupid shit in him coached out by Nuno.
Absolutely 100% that every team in the premier will have watch the game films of him and have instructions to target that area every time. He's a bit like a weak corner back in the NFL. Literally every throw from the QB targets that area because they know it's a potential score.
The smart corner backs have the ability to change their style and/or get coached to be better. Hopefully Semedo is the smart corner back for the teams sake.

 

[Norman Deeley]

Nuno doesn't know what he wants? I think the proof of that will be on the Spurs build up thread. Ten people will suggest ten different teams, whereas in the last two seasons we could almost name the team.

 

[prawnking]

On Semedo i'm in the he's not earning his corn yet camp, but i'm sure he's a clever enough player to have the stupid shit in him coached out by Nuno.

The smart corner backs have the ability to change their style and/or get coached to be better. Hopefully Semedo is the smart corner back for the teams sake.

Players can adapt, develop and change at any age, but Nelson is 27... you want some kind of finished article at that age, this isn't RAN or Hoever we're talking about

 

[redvictor]

Players can adapt, develop and change at any age, but Nelson is 27... you want some kind of finished article at that age, this isn't RAN or Hoever we're talking about

Agreed, but also he is from leagues were it isn't 100mph for 90 mins. To get to the energy level needed in the PL takes a little time, and some special coaching.
He's certainly not a 37 million pound player on what i've seen so far, but he could be. Well, i fooking hope so anyway.

 

[slink]

This is going to be a long post so apologies for anyone reading it but not posted for a while so a lot to catch up on and it could probably be its own thread but here goes.

Starting with last night and i know it's been covered already but every man and his dog knows that Nuno got the team wrong. From Kilman on the right side of the 3 to Otasowie in a weird attacking midfielder/false 9 position. He had the chance to change it and didn't do it and we were not coming back from 2-0. Having said that we did start reasonably well but then just reverted to sit back and soak up which gave Burnley encouragement and they punished us.

In terms of the whole season it's been very inconsistent and as always the negatives get highlighted more than the positives that's just human nature and yes i would say there does seem to be more negatives than positives yet things really aren't that bad and it's more often than not small margins either way in games. There's been massive margins too in a couple of games that we have definitely been on the wrong end of such as Nuno getting the whole set up wrong at West Ham or the team giving up against Liverpool. I would say the biggest problem is a lack of consistency in our set up and team selection and we've gone back to not having a recognised style of play.

I was always of the opinion that the way we set up in our first 2 seasons back in the premier league wasn't sustainable to get us into the top 6 and stay there which is surely the ultimate goal and i'm more than prepared to wait for our younger players to blossom and even have a transitional season which i think many have talked about but that's where i would like to see some sort of plan. We're definitely trying to be more attacking yet retain how solid we've been in the last 2 years but we're struggling to striker that balance or set us up in a way that does either of them. This is up to Nuno and his team to sort out but they aren't figuring that out at the minute and therefore there isn't really a transition happening it's just confusion and uncertainty.

As i was saying regarding the small margins just look at some of our games and the chances we have missed or the individual errors that have cost us. I know some will say this happens to all teams and it does and we can all look at what ifs but it does show that things aren't as bad, we've been in games and those margins have cost us and the reaction at the end is very much doom and gloom or for me generally badly put across with some sort of victim mentality. I do think though that we haven't really played well for long enough in games, we've had spells but that's it. For example

Man City - Podence chances second half could have won us the game had he taken them which he definitely should have.
Newcastle - Patricio error costs us the game.
Leicester - Yes we were poor but don't think Leicester would have scored without the dodgy penalty
Liverpool - Well in the game before the Coady error and he should have equalised 20 seconds before the 2nd goal
Villa - Donk scores as he should and Silva's shot goes in and everyone says easy victory, played well and kept Villa to 1 shot.

As i said i think every team can look at what ifs and they all make errors but my main point is that everything gets magnified if it's negative and the Villa game being one of the main ones. Definitely one of our better performances this season, created 3/4 good chances and should have won but at the end of the game most of the criticism goes to the whole performance rather than the little errors. A team can perform well in general but still not win due to those errors and small margins i've mentioned.

I do agree with a lot of what has been said regarding Nuno and the fact that he seems to be struggling with the lockdowns and not seeing his family which is more than understandable, obviously we can't know this but it definitely comes across like that and i do think that's having an effect on the the team and i think the lack of fans is not helping. Nuno and all of the players since he came in have always been big on interaction with the supporters and it's just not possible. Despite all of that it is their job to do the very best they can and for Nuno and his team to find a way of playing that gets the best out of what we have got and we aren't doing that right now. Despite being well in games we haven't looked like a fluid team who knows what each other is doing a lot of the time and we've relied on flashes of brilliance from Neto and Podence or Jimenez before his injury.

There's been a lot of talk about player performances as well which really haven't helped whether that's due to not knowing their roles, formation, injuries, illness, form or not really coping with the lack of atmosphere but in most games we've had a player who has not played anywhere near their best. Just on those players....

Boly - Don't think he's looked comfortable since the Arsenal game after lockdown, looks a shadow if his former self on the ball and not as solid as he was. Probably still has to play though if fit.

Semedo - Without a doubt a better footballer than Doc but not quite fit in yet as we would have hoped. As fans we want this to happen instantly but sometimes this isn't the case. He's looked good in flashes but then looked like a woeful footballer at others. He's played well for Portugal this season though so he's obviously much better than he's showing for us but not showing it at the moment.

Neves - One player who suffers imo from Nuno not knowing what to do with his central midfield and how to get players to link play effectively when in possession when the wing backs are cut off. Shifted into a position too deep or too wide most of the time or too far forward in the Liverpool game. Chelsea game showed us that he's still quality, even before Otasowie came on and he was effectively playing in the centre on his own (Donk had a shocker) he was trying to make us tick.

Traore - Obviously splits opinion and as always with things that do that it's often the middle ground that is right. He's got attributes that make him unplayable at times, just look at the 2 goals against Arsenal, yes he didn't directly assist the goals in the end but without him we don't score either of them. However he's so frustrating to watch because his movement off the ball is still non existent and we continue to persist with him running down the line and crossing into the box with at most 1 man to hit. It comes off sometimes but more often than not it doesn't. The fact that this keeps happening makes me believe that this is a tactic though rather than Adama just doing it. He must come inside more or we need to play to his strengths and get players in the box if we are ever going to get the best out of him.

I think everyone realises that Podence and Neto are our most productive players and for me it's those 2 we need to build the team around and how do we get the best out of them but we don't really seem to be able to do that right now. We also need to play Silva, he's not ready to be a regular for where we are right not but it's sink or swim and for me he's going to swim. He's shown enough in the games that he has played for me to think that he has the ability to make signing him when we did a fantastic bit of business but he is another player that will need the team to be positive and on the front foot rather than isolated and relying on him to come up with magic.

That's quite a lot i've gone through there as i think there's a lot to talk about and i've probably missed lots of things and haven't really gone in to any tactical stuff or the fact that we're missing players like Jimenez and Jonny but every game seems to bring lots of stuff to talk about and i don't think that's about to change.

 

[sycophantia]

This is going to be a long post so apologies for anyone reading it but not posted for a while so a lot to catch up on and it could probably be its own thread but here goes.

Starting with last night and i know it's been covered already but every man and his dog knows that Nuno got the team wrong. From Kilman on the right side of the 3 to Otasowie in a weird attacking midfielder/false 9 position. He had the chance to change it and didn't do it and we were not coming back from 2-0. Having said that we did start reasonably well but then just reverted to sit back and soak up which gave Burnley encouragement and they punished us.

In terms of the whole season it's been very inconsistent and as always the negatives get highlighted more than the positives that's just human nature and yes i would say there does seem to be more negatives than positives yet things really aren't that bad and it's more often than not small margins either way in games. There's been massive margins too in a couple of games that we have definitely been on the wrong end of such as Nuno getting the whole set up wrong at West Ham or the team giving up against Liverpool. I would say the biggest problem is a lack of consistency in our set up and team selection and we've gone back to not having a recognised style of play.

I was always of the opinion that the way we set up in our first 2 seasons back in the premier league wasn't sustainable to get us into the top 6 and stay there which is surely the ultimate goal and i'm more than prepared to wait for our younger players to blossom and even have a transitional season which i think many have talked about but that's where i would like to see some sort of plan. We're definitely trying to be more attacking yet retain how solid we've been in the last 2 years but we're struggling to striker that balance or set us up in a way that does either of them. This is up to Nuno and his team to sort out but they aren't figuring that out at the minute and therefore there isn't really a transition happening it's just confusion and uncertainty.

As i was saying regarding the small margins just look at some of our games and the chances we have missed or the individual errors that have cost us. I know some will say this happens to all teams and it does and we can all look at what ifs but it does show that things aren't as bad, we've been in games and those margins have cost us and the reaction at the end is very much doom and gloom or for me generally badly put across with some sort of victim mentality. I do think though that we haven't really played well for long enough in games, we've had spells but that's it. For example

Man City - Podence chances second half could have won us the game had he taken them which he definitely should have.
Newcastle - Patricio error costs us the game.
Leicester - Yes we were poor but don't think Leicester would have scored without the dodgy penalty
Liverpool - Well in the game before the Coady error and he should have equalised 20 seconds before the 2nd goal
Villa - Donk scores as he should and Silva's shot goes in and everyone says easy victory, played well and kept Villa to 1 shot.

As i said i think every team can look at what ifs and they all make errors but my main point is that everything gets magnified if it's negative and the Villa game being one of the main ones. Definitely one of our better performances this season, created 3/4 good chances and should have won but at the end of the game most of the criticism goes to the whole performance rather than the little errors. A team can perform well in general but still not win due to those errors and small margins i've mentioned.

I do agree with a lot of what has been said regarding Nuno and the fact that he seems to be struggling with the lockdowns and not seeing his family which is more than understandable, obviously we can't know this but it definitely comes across like that and i do think that's having an effect on the the team and i think the lack of fans is not helping. Nuno and all of the players since he came in have always been big on interaction with the supporters and it's just not possible. Despite all of that it is their job to do the very best they can and for Nuno and his team to find a way of playing that gets the best out of what we have got and we aren't doing that right now. Despite being well in games we haven't looked like a fluid team who knows what each other is doing a lot of the time and we've relied on flashes of brilliance from Neto and Podence or Jimenez before his injury.

There's been a lot of talk about player performances as well which really haven't helped whether that's due to not knowing their roles, formation, injuries, illness, form or not really coping with the lack of atmosphere but in most games we've had a player who has not played anywhere near their best. Just on those players....

Boly - Don't think he's looked comfortable since the Arsenal game after lockdown, looks a shadow if his former self on the ball and not as solid as he was. Probably still has to play though if fit.

Semedo - Without a doubt a better footballer than Doc but not quite fit in yet as we would have hoped. As fans we want this to happen instantly but sometimes this isn't the case. He's looked good in flashes but then looked like a woeful footballer at others. He's played well for Portugal this season though so he's obviously much better than he's showing for us but not showing it at the moment.

Neves - One player who suffers imo from Nuno not knowing what to do with his central midfield and how to get players to link play effectively when in possession when the wing backs are cut off. Shifted into a position too deep or too wide most of the time or too far forward in the Liverpool game. Chelsea game showed us that he's still quality, even before Otasowie came on and he was effectively playing in the centre on his own (Donk had a shocker) he was trying to make us tick.

Traore - Obviously splits opinion and as always with things that do that it's often the middle ground that is right. He's got attributes that make him unplayable at times, just look at the 2 goals against Arsenal, yes he didn't directly assist the goals in the end but without him we don't score either of them. However he's so frustrating to watch because his movement off the ball is still non existent and we continue to persist with him running down the line and crossing into the box with at most 1 man to hit. It comes off sometimes but more often than not it doesn't. The fact that this keeps happening makes me believe that this is a tactic though rather than Adama just doing it. He must come inside more or we need to play to his strengths and get players in the box if we are ever going to get the best out of him.

I think everyone realises that Podence and Neto are our most productive players and for me it's those 2 we need to build the team around and how do we get the best out of them but we don't really seem to be able to do that right now. We also need to play Silva, he's not ready to be a regular for where we are right not but it's sink or swim and for me he's going to swim. He's shown enough in the games that he has played for me to think that he has the ability to make signing him when we did a fantastic bit of business but he is another player that will need the team to be positive and on the front foot rather than isolated and relying on him to come up with magic.

That's quite a lot i've gone through there as i think there's a lot to talk about and i've probably missed lots of things and haven't really gone in to any tactical stuff or the fact that we're missing players like Jimenez and Jonny but every game seems to bring lots of stuff to talk about and i don't think that's about to change.

You're read my mind and put it far better than I could, cheers mate.

 

[Aikiwolf]

i found this passmap interesting, it should how congested we were and how little Podence and Neto play between each other (they seem to have very little in combinations with anyone tbh). They're both good players but they sum up wolves at the moment, we are not working as "a pack" and the team work ethic seems to be a bit lacking. I think that's down to injuries, new players and too much change in terms of players and formations.

 

[Johnny75]

It’s almost like we need a link player for the front 3/4

This is within Nuno’s grasp and I’m confident he can sort this out, he hasn’t become a bad manager overnight.

 

[1986]

Couple of things .

Marcal has to start for me every game until we get a consistency back at a minimum . Our back 3 should be Coady , Boly and Kilman - I did say a few days ago that Boly might need time on the bench , but Saiss is just not good enough in that role .
Neves and Saiss in midfield .
Marcal on the left and probably Semedo on the right , but I'd love to see Hoever get a chance at some point . The FA cup might show us what he can do .
Podence Silva and Neto up front .

We benefited hugely from having a settled team over the last 3 seasons - we need to head back there to steady the ship .

 

[Paul]

Couple of things .

Marcal has to start for me every game until we get a consistency back at a minimum . Our back 3 should be Coady , Boly and Kilman - I did say a few days ago that Boly might need time on the bench , but Saiss is just not good enough in that role .

We benefited hugely from having a settled team over the last 3 seasons - we need to head back there to steady the ship .

But Boly has been poor most of the season and Kilman was worse on Monday (he was playing on the right to be fair)

 

[AndyWolves]

View attachment 3234i found this passmap interesting, it should how congested we were and how little Podence and Neto play between each other (they seem to have very little in combinations with anyone tbh). They're both good players but they sum up wolves at the moment, we are not working as "a pack" and the team work ethic seems to be a bit lacking. I think that's down to injuries, new players and too much change in terms of players and formations.

Are those average positions?

 

[sycophantia]

It seems every time Saiss has a good game, he's our number one CB, when he makes a mistake, he's our biggest priority to upgrade.

 

[Aikiwolf]

Are those average positions?

Average touches I think, with the lines showing pass combinations

 

[prawnking]

It seems every time Saiss has a good game, he's our number one CB, when he makes a mistake, he's our biggest priority to upgrade.

I know you're trying to make a point about fickleness but I'm not sure this is all really true.

I don't think anyone on here has ever thought Saiss was anything other than our third choice CB at best, and he was always one of the main upgrade targets along with Benno and Doc.

Nuno even upgraded him (twice!) in midfield when we got promoted, and he wasn't really considered much as a regular CB until we found replacing Bennett difficult.

Is there anyone ahead of him in the upgrade stakes apart from Ruddy?

Doesn't mean he's a bad player, he can have storming games sometimes and is valuable in a squad sense, and seems a lovely bloke, but when he has ricks I think it reminds most people that he probably isn't quite good enough for where we want to be

 

[AndyWolves]

Average touches I think, with the lines showing pass combinations

My only thought was Semedo looks pretty lonely.

Having seen Burnley's pass map, their player distribution looks much more balanced - we look congested down the middle and isolated on the flanks

 

[prawnking]

My only thought was Semedo looks pretty lonely.

With you guys going on about Nuno missing his family and now Nelson being lonely, you're gonna have me welling up by Xmas...

 

[Norman Deeley]

What site are the passmaps on? Would like to see the Burnley one

 

[The Bear]

Looks like attacking moves broke down on the left with Ait-Nouri. He should be more adventurous as a WB and a more attacking type of player.

 

[YoungWolf]

I know you're trying to make a point about fickleness but I'm not sure this is all really true.

I don't think anyone on here has ever thought Saiss was anything other than our third choice CB at best, and he was always one of the main upgrade targets along with Benno and Doc.

Nuno even upgraded him (twice!) in midfield when we got promoted, and he wasn't really considered much as a regular CB until we found replacing Bennett difficult.

Is there anyone ahead of him in the upgrade stakes apart from Ruddy?

Doesn't mean he's a bad player, he can have storming games sometimes and is valuable in a squad sense, and seems a lovely bloke, but when he has ricks I think it reminds most people that he probably isn't quite good enough for where we want to be

Yeah, I love Saiss but it is in part a failing of our recruitment of centre backs that has led to him playing there (where he has then done really well, consistently too IMO).

I think Dendoncker was originally bought for that position and then we obviously had the Vallejo saga

In January I'd be looking at a forward and ball carrying midfielder first, but then maybe a quicker centre back who can play in a back four.