Burnley 2-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[sycophantia]

Stripping out our penalty xG last night is 1.36 - 0.45

but why would you strip out the penalty from xG? it was a legitimate attacking move which lead to a goal

 

[Kenny]

not sure how long it will take but would have liked to see more progress and less chopping and changing around

We have a fair few who are just not close to their best or have a decent game followed by a shocker way too often. Is that just a product of the last 18-20 months and them being mentally fucked or them not fitting into the style we are now trying to adopt?

 

[Kenny]

but why would you strip out the penalty from xG? it was a legitimate attacking move which lead to a goal

Dramatic reasons

If I take out March and up to today from the calendar, then its been a fairly decent year.

 

[sycophantia]

We have a fair few who are just not close to their best or have a decent game followed by a shocker way too often. Is that just a product of the last 18-20 months and them being mentally fucked or them not fitting into the style we are now trying to adopt?

Probably both

 

[Paul]

Ah...the old 'type bollocks get called out' cliche again.

Not playing to the gallery but you still get your likes from your pals...Still waiting for Johnny to explain why Adama's hand in both goals v Arsenal don't count as 'contributions'...but then again some people just vanish when they get 'called

A bit like someone who doesn't post for years and then when things are going poorly seems to post every other message, we'll leave that one to the scholars in the future to work out shall we ?

 

[Del Woppio]

Just watched it back - while he's getting to his feet, Taylor is still nearer Pope. Now I accept he's just ran the length of the pitch, but Taylor himself only walks to the half way line, and only sprints into the space down the left when the ball is played back down the line. I'm not saying it's solely him, by any stretch, but when I saw him just trotting over half way when it's nodded in about 30 seconds after we lost it, I was fuming.

 

[prawnking]

Oh I agree the transition thing shouldn't be used as an excuse for all our problems, it will have an effect though. We have been a defensive, counter attacking team since we came up tbf, we have built our team around that up till now, not sure how long it will take but would have liked to see more progress and less chopping and changing around

No-one forced Nuno to start this transition during the pandemic. Our previous style was hardly a busted flush, couldn't we have just supplemented the team with a quality addition or two for this season and started the big change next summer??

 

[prawnking]

A bit like someone who doesn't post for years and then when things are going poorly seems to post every other message, we'll leave that one to the scholars in the future to work out shall we ?

That gnomic masterpiece should get at least three likes...maybe more!

 

[Walnut]

We don't use him properly, he'd go somewhere else and flourish like Jota has, it's a shame but we are wasting Neves' abilities

I agree. He should be playing the position that Fernandes does for Man Utd where he can affect the game.

 

[Kenny]

No-one forced Nuno to start this transition during the pandemic. Our previous style was hardly a busted flush, couldn't we have just supplemented the team with a quality addition or two for this season and started the big change next summer??

No one forced as such but maybe the calls for Jota and Doc (both wanted to go when they knew the offers were in) pushed the need to start a change forward.
Since Nuno came in the biggest issue has been how rigid we were on the 5 at the back, even when playing teams we park the bus. Our way round it previoulsy was to play Troare as a wing back. As much as it didn't help last night, it was at least a positive (trying to grasp those straws) last night in a game where we needed to change that change was to go 4 at the back and lose the extra defender.
Obviously its a different chat as to whether we should have started like that. If Saiss hadn't gone crazy in the 93rd min we may even have got out of their with a point. Trying to volley in from where he was instead of back across goal where Silva was standing 4 yards out was the lovely cherry on the cake.

 

[prawnking]

No one forced as such but maybe the calls for Jota and Doc (both wanted to go when they knew the offers were in) pushed the need to start a change forward.

But I thought the general consensus was that Jota was out of the team anyway and Doc was shit and an easy upgrade?

 

[Kenny]

But I thought the general consensus was that Jota was out of the team anyway and Doc was shit and an easy upgrade?

Well ok, to fit into that...maybe Jota being out of the team and form and Doc being shit pushed the need to start a change, forward.

 

[Tony Towner]

I agree. He should be playing the position that Fernandes does for Man Utd where he can affect the game.

Completely different players. Neves couldn't do that role. His best games since lockdown have all been when Moutinho has been out where can dictate pace and flow from the centre of the pitch. Difficult to do that in games when there is little off the ball movement like yesterday apparently was.

But I thought the general consensus was that Jota was out of the team anyway and Doc was shit and an easy upgrade?

The first is factually correct - although i disagreed with it. The second without the hyperbole should have been relatively easy, although I'm in the camp that we've managed not to at least thus far

 

[prawnking]

Well ok, to fit into that...maybe Jota being out of the team and form and Doc being shit pushed the need to start a change, forward.

Keep changing those goalposts so Nuno's always above reproach, eh?

 

[Kenny]

Keep changing those goalposts so Nuno's always above reproach, eh?

Either way it gives the same answer around the same players, so post firmly fixed

Good managers try to evolve every few years. Those that stay the same soon fall into the trap of getting a new job every 18-24 months. Just ours maybe chose the wrong season to try it but right now we don't really know. Just seems crap off the back of a miserable defeat.

 

[prawnking]

Just seems crap off the back of a miserable defeat.

3 defeats in 4, isn't it?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

He’s not to dissimilar to Michael Carrick. Slow, immobile but takes up good positions and gets play started. He’s nowhere near as good at taking up those positions though.

But man United basically played with a back 2 so he had loads of options. We play with a back 7. So he’s getting caught on the ball, passing it backwards, resorting to hoofs.

Our issues are entirely tactical and have been all years. Saints, Villa don’t have better players than us yet are doing much better. Burnley definitely don’t and 2-1 flattered us.

He seems to lack composure at times in that role though, you want him to be the one that sits there always being available to release pressure and keep possession ticking over but he doesn't seem able or comfortable taking the ball under pressure to lay it off elsewhere. More often than not if the ball drops to him facing his own goal from a clearance it just gets hooked over his shoulder and away, a player with his quality on the ball should be doing more than that, he should be a calming influence that helps you control the game.

Obviously a different level but Busquets used to do that brilliantly for Barca in their peak years, just sat behind Xavi and Iniesta to give them the out ball if they ever needed, likewise when they played out from the back, would drop in and have it from the keeper or centre halves then quickly pop it off wide to a fullback. It's nothing especially complicated or fancy but they have to back themselves to have the ball in tight areas and have the awareness of what's going on around them to pick those simple passes quickly before they're shut down.

At the other end of the scale it's a job McDonald did very well at a lower level, not as quick in his distribution but he'd almost always back himself to get on the ball and even under pressure he was generally reliable for holding onto it and retaining possession, comically so when it lead to him spinning round about 355 degrees to get back onto his preferred side with someone trying to nab it off him.

I agree. He should be playing the position that Fernandes does for Man Utd where he can affect the game.

Hasn't got the mobility to play like Fernandes, nor does he seem comfortable receiving the ball with his back to goal which would be inevitable in that position. Probably be more of a high class Kevin Nolan bumbling around hoping for a knock down off the forward.

 

[Kenny]

3 defeats in 4, isn't it?

just seems crap after a miserable month

 

[Premier Quality]

Neves can’t play like busquets did with Iniesta and xavi in front him because he doesn’t have iniesta and xavi in front of him.

 

[Nando]

The Carrick comparison is very apt in playing style - although Ruben is currently some way off that at the moment. He was a horrendously underappreciated player who ran the show for years at United. What we'd give for him now in an England shirt.

Ruben's night was summed up when he had a fairly straight forward switch out left with a real chance to isolate Lowton who was in a horrible defensive position, yet he managed to pick him out instead. We largely don't help him with our movement off the ball in advanced positions, as he's a player that thrives when there's options/space. He's never going to be a David Silva/Iniesta style player where he can get himself out of tight pockets of space in deeper positions and bring the ball forward, and he's certainly not a Bruno style player.

The lack of movement and the subsequent slowing of the tempo just invites the opposition to press high and force us sideways, or to lose the ball completely. The few times we actually moved intelligently off the ball in the first 10/15 both he and Coady played some quick progressive balls that broke the first line of defence and had Neto/Podence on the turn in advanced positions.