The Rugby Thread

[Newbridge Wolf]

Wasps look fairly certain to be going into administration, under league rules if they do then they get automatically relegated. So some are saying could be the end for them in a Rangers sort of way.

As they are Coventry's landlords at the Ricoh dont know how it leaves them, suppose we can look forward to more shenanigans involving SISU, the council and the club over the stadium.

Starting to think that place must be cursed.

Not sure Worcester will survive the season either, some strange goings on down at six ways as their owners asset strip the club.

I read that Wasps would be relegated automatically but I thought there wasn't any relegation this season and that's why Worcester were hoping to go into admin and get a new owner, could well be wrong as I don't follow too closely.

The stadium situation at Coventry would likely result in the football club buying it from the administratiors and then I should imagine very quickly kicking Wasps out of it leaving them homeless. Coventry have no love of Wasps and union being played there.

Iddly the opposite happened with Wigan but the same result happened where the football club went into administration and then the new owners bought out the stadium and have made it very difficult for the Rugby club since then.

Ground shares whilst sounding good almost always fall down on the vested interests of each party conflicting with the other.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Not sure Worcester will survive the season either, some strange goings on down at six ways as their owners asset strip the club.

I read that Wasps would be relegated automatically but I thought there wasn't any relegation this season and that's why Worcester were hoping to go into admin and get a new owner, could well be wrong as I don't follow too closely.

The stadium situation at Coventry would likely result in the football club buying it from the administratiors and then I should imagine very quickly kicking Wasps out of it leaving them homeless. Coventry have no love of Wasps and union being played there.

Iddly the opposite happened with Wigan but the same result happened where the football club went into administration and then the new owners bought out the stadium and have made it very difficult for the Rugby club since then.

Ground shares whilst sounding good almost always fall down on the vested interests of each party conflicting with the other.

There isnt relegation this year, but going into administration might overide that.

Coventry are still owned by SISU who are a shower of cunts, dont know if the council still have a say in the stadium a well.

Yeah ground sharing never works as well in practice as in theory.

Worcester seems to be owned by a pair of chancers.

Bottom line is professional rugby except for a few clubs is in trouble in Europe.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

With a few exceptions, rugby attendances and TV deals in this country don't make the growth in player wages sustainable. When it became a professional sport players with good jobs were in a dilemma as to whether to go full time or not. The clamour to replicate football and some of the ridiculous salaries now on offer with rugby make it unviable from any financial viewpoint. Single player salaries at every club of £250k+ for clubs averaging 10,000 a game for a 12 home game season is madness.

Yet the same path is being trodden by the womens football game and those who want equality to the mens game. There isn't the interest and there never will be the interest to justify it ever being more than a semi-pro sport at the highest end for 99% of clubs. Odd games and occasional hype will see big attendances, but in the main it will never grow too much in size.

Both rugby and womens football, like cricket, are all perfectly good sports and structures in their won right. Player salaries will never reach football levels [as obscene as they are].

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

Hadn't realised Coventry were still owned by SISU, they are a shower of shit.

It would appear that the problem with Wasps (apart from HMRC) is the £32m bond release from the purchase of the Cov arena, reading that they have now approached administrators but not appointed them to go into administration.

Worcester were looking like they had a way out but think the shysters who have been busy selling the Car Park and other club assests to their other businesses for reduced market rates are now against it.

Yep rugby is struggling across Europe, not sure how France is doing as they seem to be chucking around big contracts but for how long who knows. It seems like most clubs have overstretched themselves for a protracted period.

The professional age has seen many of the old established clubs sink into obscurity, its hard to think of Moseley being a top team these days, or of an England player of over 50 caps playing for a level 4 or 5 local club like Preston Grasshoppers

The truth is the arms race in salaries has harmed the sport overall and there needs to be an adjustment to reality, they also need to drop any pretence that the Championship can be a full time professional league.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Hadn't realised Coventry were still owned by SISU, they are a shower of shit.

It would appear that the problem with Wasps (apart from HMRC) is the £32m bond release from the purchase of the Cov arena, reading that they have now approached administrators but not appointed them to go into administration.

Worcester were looking like they had a way out but think the shysters who have been busy selling the Car Park and other club assests to their other businesses for reduced market rates are now against it.

Yep rugby is struggling across Europe, not sure how France is doing as they seem to be chucking around big contracts but for how long who knows. It seems like most clubs have overstretched themselves for a protracted period.

The professional age has seen many of the old established clubs sink into obscurity, its hard to think of Moseley being a top team these days, or of an England player of over 50 caps playing for a level 4 or 5 local club like Preston Grasshoppers

The truth is the arms race in salaries has harmed the sport overall and there needs to be an adjustment to reality, they also need to drop any pretence that the Championship can be a full time professional league.

French clubs all have big benefactors which brought in the best players and on the back of that a big tv deal, saying that apart from a couple of teams (like Toulouse) there are plenty of teams who rise after the owner throws in a few pound who then after a couple of years slide back into obscurity as either the owner realises they are not going to get rich on the back of things or gets fed upt hrowing money into a bottomless pit.

Whole club scene needs a reboot in this part of the world, something like for 12 premier league sides to join the 10 proffessional Irish/Welsh/scots team in one league with 2 divisions with promotion/relegation, big clubs still have their traditional rivalry whilst adding in Anglo/welsh games to add a bit of spice.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

Cricket needs to learn a lesson from rugby. A mate of mine played for Leicester and came through the ranks with them. Their traditional rivalries have all but been extinguished and 'new' pseudo rivalries created since professionalism. There is no tradition or history to most of these and as a result they don't garner the same depth of feeling across generations and in families.
The Roses cricket games will always have felt special to Lancastrians or Yorkies but I'm not sure Manchester Originals fans will recall the same memories of their tussles with the Northern Superchargers.

Of course I could be very wrong and I'm just out of touch.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The IPL has been running for 10+ years. I couldn't tell you who a single player has ever played for or currently plays for, other than Dhoni used to play for Chennai in their bile coloured kit (maybe still does).

It's all so meaningless.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Leicester hate Bath and vice versa. This "East Midlands rivalry" with Northampton is very much a newly-developed bit of fakery.

Bath hate Bristol and Gloucester too, but Exeter were always an irrelevance as they were shit. Bath also have had a strong rivalry with Cardiff and Newport. And matches against Neath were always punch ups. The Welsh provinces would mean nothing.

 

[North Shropshire Lad]

As there was no league structure fixtures were played on notable occasions throughout the year and games against Moseley were probably Leicester's biggest. The ABC bar at Welford Road (so called because their front three were ABC rather than 123 when they wore letters not numbers on their shirts) is adorned with cups and pictures of long since lost rivalries.

I know history doesn't pay the bills and we have to move on, but change isn't always better. I don't even like watching rugby on the plastic pitch a Worcester. Probably won't have to worry about that for too much longer though!

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Bristol wore ABC as well I think. Would need to dig out old photos to be sure

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

The Welsh provinces was always an oddity, desperate to copy the success of the Irish teams and keep their best players just madness.

ABC was an old numbering system that some teams played with, some teams kept it longer than others, there were quite a few quirks with numbering and even position of players that were lost over time.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

https://www.squadnumbers.com/2019/10/01/this-is-not-soccer/

For anyone who has a sad interest in these things like myself!

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I remember the no number 13 at the rec!

 

[Donegal Wolf]

On a similar note, looks like the radical step of having players names on players shirt will be introduced in next years six nations.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

Worcester Warriors: MP Robin Walker asks DCMS to sanction club being put into administration

Worcester MP Robin Walker asks the government to trigger the process of putting Worcester Warriors into administration.

www.bbc.co.uk

A sobering read, I've been to Sixways a few times and its a great experience in terms of what they have to offer, would be a shame for that to be lost, although its hard to see how they can come back from this

 

[Donegal Wolf]

The Welsh provinces was always an oddity, desperate to copy the success of the Irish teams and keep their best players just madness.

ABC was an old numbering system that some teams played with, some teams kept it longer than others, there were quite a few quirks with numbering and even position of players that were lost over time.

Yes Welsh saw what the Irish are doing and tried to copy it not recognising that there were a number of differences in the situation, at the time Irish rugby was at rock bottom sturggling to win any games in the 5 nations, so everyone had to buy into it, the club game wasnt as big as in Wales non of the clubs could operate on their own in the professional era, whilst in Wales Cardiff, llanelli etc were all strong.

Also just as importantly the fact that the provinces werent artificial like in Wales where they are purely made up for rugby, the provinces in Ireland are clearly defined with firm borders and have been in place for hundreds of years, the framework for nearly all sports goes through the provincial system, so supporters were able to buy into it far easier as they already had links and history with them, plus they got successful very early which helped.

Welsh rubgy never recovered from messing with the clubs, Gatland managed to cover it with the national side punching above their weight for many years

 

[Johnny75]

Fantastic interview with Steve Thompson this morning on the Beeb about head injuries and contact sports.

Articulating what has been know for a decade live on TV has such a powerful effect.

 

[AndyWolves]

Fantastic interview with Steve Thompson this morning on the Beeb about head injuries and contact sports.

Articulating what has been know for a decade live on TV has such a powerful effect.

IIRC you're well versed in this area.

Do you think there will always be athletes who play rugby / football that will suffer from CTE at a higher rate than normal? I guess the question i'm asking is do you think football & rugby will always put players at a higher-than-average level of risk of CTE?

edit. Forgot to add, the video is a hard watch but eye opening at the same time

 

[Johnny75]

IIRC you're well versed in this area.

Do you think there will always be athletes who play rugby / football that will suffer from CTE at a higher rate than normal? I guess the question i'm asking is do you think football & rugby will always put players at a higher-than-average level of risk of CTE?

edit. Forgot to add, the video is a hard watch but eye opening at the same time

It is a hard watch but important for any parent or player to watch

The short answer is yes, all contact sports increase the chance of CTE or other neurological conditions. Collision sports like rugby, AFL, NFL, boxing etc will always have a higher risk by their very nature.

It's understanding those risks that people need to be aware of and asking if those risks are worth it.

Nobody knows if they're going to get any form of dementia is whether you want to increase that risk.

 

[Newbridge Wolf]

Sad to see Worcester go, I'm not sure they can be saved and even if they are the damage will take a long time to heal.

Whilst I dont support Union club teams (Llanelli aside) as a communuty club they were our Premiership club and it was a route of progression for some of our talented players, one or two have even gone onto national representation at their level. Like Moseley a decade or two before them it leaves a big gap in the route to top level rugby in the area.

We are left with Leicester which is a much more difficult journey, so it's made recognition for our talented players in the area that more difficult.

Coventry have also been getting involved more in the region but again it's a difficult journey across the M6 and of course a level lower. Wasps do nothing in the area that I'm aware of and even if they did, they're not in much better a position.

Tough one for all involved and the owners blaming fans and players for the issues just shows how much of a pair of snakes they are, they've also pretty much driven the nail in the club by selling off club assets such as parking to their other businesses therefore strangling any potential investment, shame as Sixways is/was a decent day out