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O'Neil In, Out and Shaking it all about

The Dude said:
If he'd only said that, I'd be fine with it. I can accept mistakes. I can accept poor decisions, shit happens.

But he's repeatedly alluded to the situation he inherited, whenever he's experienced a negative result and/or performance.

Just fucking stop it. This is the hand you've been dealt. Perform better in adversity.
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I don't think he's mentioned anything about what he inherited since the first 3 or 4 weeks he became manager? Which is exactly when it is relevant to talk about that, very relevant!
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I don't think he's mentioned anything about what he inherited since the first 3 or 4 weeks he became manager? Which is exactly when it is relevant to talk about that, very relevant!
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He mentions it after pretty much every game to big the players and by extension himself up. Kenny is correct in what he says re hearing things depending on your feelings towards someone at the time in question. His communication hasn't changed since day 1, broadly speaking the results have
 
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Did you type that whilst driving? :)

I haven't noticed it to be honest, I've heard Lineker etc bring it up and then him respond, but not him bringing it up himself since the early part of the season.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
Interesting.

RAN who GON moved forward scored and then got an assist for a player GON brought on, seems like GON actually dug us out of a whole with his selection, formation and tactics?

Of course we ended up losing the game, but given the goals were down to individual mistakes im at a loss as to what GON should have done to prevent that?

Also, what starting 11 would you have gone with given what we had to pick from? I'm intrigued?
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I'd have played two up top utilising the same personnel actually. I'd have kept Mario where he's proven so effective this season in a 352.

I'd have had RAN playing LW before Mario and Bueno at LWB in place of RAN if playing a 343

To his credit, GON did dig us out of a hole, the hole though was of his own making. We lost the midfield battle big time.
 
I don't think it'd take more than 2 or 3 bad results for this fan base to turn on him though.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I don't think he's mentioned anything about what he inherited since the first 3 or 4 weeks he became manager? Which is exactly when it is relevant to talk about that, very relevant!
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He did on Saturday. Almost every time he's had a negative result he's mentioned it. He can't help himself.

The fact he's mentioning it less is due to good results and performances, very much to his credit actually. But he does love to mention the situation.
 
There was a lot of anger building from the fans after Ipswich and it felt after Luton and Ipswich that O'Neil was deflecting. Where he had previously praised the players and talked them up, he was starting to mention the lack of transfers, restrictions etc.

Since then, pleasingly, we've not really had a bad enough run for any real severe criticism, so O'Neil's stock is high and his reputation is good. And, the one bad period we did have (3 defeats in 4) included losses to Sheffield United and Fulham which were largely down to poor decisions.

But, Saturday was a real low point and O'Neil straight away went to mentioning the squad.

We all know that's the reason we're struggling, so he's right to say it, but he was adamant in January that the squad was fine. He even said something ridiculous that Sasa and Silva wouldn't have played if they were here.

I'm personally not a fan of that. He should have been honest in January. You don't need to go full Lopetegui, but O'Neil was far too much the other way, so he shouldn't be using it as an excuse now.

I do get the feeling O'Neil is out to protect himself - like most are, to be fair.
 
Again though I get it with that pair. Sasa cannot press in the way he wants his forwards to play, and every single one of Fabio's PL appearances this season was awful, ranged from 0/10 to 2/10, genuinely.

Now of course with everyone injured they would have played ahead of Academy players but what he was getting at was he'd had half a season to look at them and if there's any choice in the matter, it's no ta as far as he's concerned. And it helps us if we can get £100k+/wk of wages out of the door for a few months (feel so bad for Sasa but Frankfurt are still on the hook for that bill).

We should of course have signed someone to replace them and it's on the club that we didn't.
 
The injury situation would be a major problem even if we'd spent in January. Missing 4 of our 6 best attackers would not be significantly less of a problem than missing 4 of 5.

That's not arguing in favor of our January (it's a different conversation, IMO), more that no team can really lose such a number of their most dangerous pieces and not regress somewhat.
 
The Dude said:
I'd have played two up top utilising the same personnel actually. I'd have kept Mario where he's proven so effective this season in a 352.

I'd have had RAN playing LW before Mario and Bueno at LWB in place of RAN if playing a 343

To his credit, GON did dig us out of a hole, the hole though was of his own making. We lost the midfield battle big time.
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He played the team that were incredible in the second half again Fulham, of which Mario was one of the best.

Mario had an absolute shocker, and Fraser may as well not have played. Sarabia then isn’t that useful of he’s got no one to pass to. We couldn’t counter like we usually do as they knew we had zero threat so could squeeze up. Any of the 4 injured forwards would have given them something to think about.

I don’t know why he pushed RAN deeper and but Doc on, but he changed that after 10 mins and we scored 2 goals. We had the game won until Mario decided to lose the ball for no reason and then even still Doc just decided to stand wrong side of Simms.

In Hindsight I’d have started RAN higher. But as I said, he was just copying the Fulham game. I’d definitely be bringing Bueno on before Doc, but that hasn’t happened since the start of the season and Bueno was miles off it, so Doc bizarrely stole the place.

As put before on here. The injuries, Fraser and a bad day at the office for Lemina was a real leveller. I think if we had one of their front 3 (or even O Hare) on our team I think we won the game.
 
sycophantia said:
I find it a bit odd that people are looking for something to moan about with GON. Yep he occasionally looks to shift some of the blame away from himself, same as every manager ever.
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Definitely a vibe that people are waiting to find out that the emperor has no clothes.

Tbf, I think that could just be that people have less than no faith in the folks who hired Gary (maybe Hobbs has some credit, but don't think anyone else does just now).
 
sycophantia said:
I find it a bit odd that people are looking for something to moan about with GON. Yep he occasionally looks to shift some of the blame away from himself, same as every manager ever.
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I agree in the main, but stripping it down to the bare facts. We just got played off the park by a slightly above average side from the league below at home in an FA Cup quarter final. Despite that we'd got out of jail going into injury time and still conspired to lose. There are mitigating factors we all know about, but any manager is going to get some scrutiny after that. It does however need to be looked at within the wider context of the season though
 
If the season ended now (even taking Saturday into account) I'd give O'Neil 8/10 for the season.

Nuno gets three straight 9/10s for his first three seasons.

To match Gaz this year I'd say you're going back to 06/07 and 08/09 with Mick (different circumstances in both), and Turner in 88/89 before that. Ken was good in his first two seasons but a rung below.

No-one else is close in my time.

Of course that mark could change if we totally "Charlton under Curbishley" it.
 
The Dude said:
If he'd only said that, I'd be fine with it. I can accept mistakes. I can accept poor decisions, shit happens.

But he's repeatedly alluded to the situation he inherited, whenever he's experienced a negative result and/or performance.

Just fucking stop it. This is the hand you've been dealt. Perform better in adversity.
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Jesus, this is incredibly harsh.
 
Tony Towner said:
I agree in the main, but stripping it down to the bare facts. We just got played off the park by a slightly above average side from the league below at home in an FA Cup quarter final. Despite that we'd got out of jail going into injury time and still conspired to lose. There are mitigating factors we all know about, but any manager is going to get some scrutiny after that. It does however need to be looked at within the wider context of the season though
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No manager should ever get a free ride when we're shit. I suspect its me being over sensitive but it feels like a few are looking to find stuff to criticise GON for to support their view that he was never gunna be good enough. Obviously we all thought he was out of his depth after the Ipswich and Palace games, but since City he's done enough to have credit in the bank
 
For full disclosure (and up for debate):

88/89 - Turner 8/10
89/90 - Turner 6.5/10
90/91 - Turner 6/10
91/92 - Turner 5/10
92/93 - Turner 5.5/10
93/94 - Turner 5/10, Taylor 6/10
94/95 - Taylor 6.5/10
95/96 - Taylor 2/10, McGhee 4/10
96/97 - McGhee 6/10
97/98 - McGhee 5.5/10
98/99 - McGhee 5/10, Lee 6.5/10
99/00 - Lee 7/10
00/01 - Lee 3/10, Jones 4/10
01/02 - Jones 6.5/10
02/03 - Jones 6.5/10
03/04 - Jones 5/10
04/05 - Jones 2/10, Hoddle 4.5/10
05/06 - Hoddle 3/10
06/07 - McCarthy 8/10
07/08 - McCarthy 5.5/10
08/09 - McCarthy 8/10
09/10 - McCarthy 6.5/10
10/11 - McCarthy 6.5/10
11/12 - McCarthy 3/10, Connor 1/10
12/13 - Solbakken 3.5/10, Saunders 0/10
13/14 - Jackett 7.5/10
14/15 - Jackett 7.5/10
15/16 - Jackett 3.5/10
16/17 - Zenga 3/10, Lambert 4.5/10
17/18 - Nuno 9/10
18/19 - Nuno 9/10
19/20 - Nuno 9/10
20/21 - Nuno 4.5/10
21/22 - Lage 3.5/10
22/23 - Lage 1/10, Davis 3.5/10, Lopetegui 7/10
23/24* - O'Neil 8/10
 
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