Norman Deeley
Dean Saunders's Press Officer
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2012
- Messages
- 5,915
- Reaction score
- 152
Willy Boly 'running' back for the 2nd is just poor. God knows where the old Boly is...
Liverpool 4-0 Wolves: Verdict Thread
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
MARKakaJIM
Contrary Mary
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2010
- Messages
- 24,608
- Reaction score
- 3,448
Don't think Nuno ever had Wolves setup to make a proper fist of any one particular thing.
Four across the back but without a focal point up top and an extra body in midfield instead, it's neither one thing nor the other, either go back to the old shape in an attempt to soak up the pressure or stick to the shape from last week and look to take the game to them. Even when Silva came on he seemed to be playing a more withdrawn role rather than the most advanced player, would've preferred to see Vitinha come on before Ait-Nouri but largely irrelevant by that point.
The goals against are shit. Why doesn't Coady just clear it for the first? One of the most dangerous players in the world hanging off his shoulder, play it safe and get rid! Second one Boly's miles up the pitch and gets into a tangle with Neves, neither Boly or Semedo really put a shift in to get back so Coady's endeavour to hold them up just left Wijnaldum with all the time in the world to pick his spot. Third is terrible on the set piece, everyone goes to sleep on the short corner and then Liverpool are queuing up for it. Fourth one Boly gone walk about again, leaves a gaping hole in the backline and Semedo not sharp enough to get across in time to cover it off, not helped by Coady letting Salah ghost off the back of him either.
Think there perhaps needs a fairly major rethink in terms of selection if the more ambitious setup with four at the back is to become the norm, it requires a different skillset and different mentality from the old low block, some of the players that shone in the latter just won't do the same in the latter. Think midfield in particular needs to be addressed, if you're not sitting deep and countering you need something other than deep sitting midfielders looking to hit the wide players early with long balls, it needs more mobility with players passing and moving to get up the field, keeping the tempo up with short passing and interchanging positions. Moutinho was brilliant at that tonight but it's not really Neves' game nor Dendoncker's. I'd like to see more of Vitinha as he seems to have that hunger to get on the ball and keep it moving, a pairing of him and Moutinho doesn't look to have much balance though.
Four across the back but without a focal point up top and an extra body in midfield instead, it's neither one thing nor the other, either go back to the old shape in an attempt to soak up the pressure or stick to the shape from last week and look to take the game to them. Even when Silva came on he seemed to be playing a more withdrawn role rather than the most advanced player, would've preferred to see Vitinha come on before Ait-Nouri but largely irrelevant by that point.
The goals against are shit. Why doesn't Coady just clear it for the first? One of the most dangerous players in the world hanging off his shoulder, play it safe and get rid! Second one Boly's miles up the pitch and gets into a tangle with Neves, neither Boly or Semedo really put a shift in to get back so Coady's endeavour to hold them up just left Wijnaldum with all the time in the world to pick his spot. Third is terrible on the set piece, everyone goes to sleep on the short corner and then Liverpool are queuing up for it. Fourth one Boly gone walk about again, leaves a gaping hole in the backline and Semedo not sharp enough to get across in time to cover it off, not helped by Coady letting Salah ghost off the back of him either.
Think there perhaps needs a fairly major rethink in terms of selection if the more ambitious setup with four at the back is to become the norm, it requires a different skillset and different mentality from the old low block, some of the players that shone in the latter just won't do the same in the latter. Think midfield in particular needs to be addressed, if you're not sitting deep and countering you need something other than deep sitting midfielders looking to hit the wide players early with long balls, it needs more mobility with players passing and moving to get up the field, keeping the tempo up with short passing and interchanging positions. Moutinho was brilliant at that tonight but it's not really Neves' game nor Dendoncker's. I'd like to see more of Vitinha as he seems to have that hunger to get on the ball and keep it moving, a pairing of him and Moutinho doesn't look to have much balance though.
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2013
- Messages
- 5,995
- Reaction score
- 4,170
As said just, would drop him for Kilman. I think he is struggling in a four.
GLASGOWOLF
You OK Hun?
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,050
- Reaction score
- 1,154
Awful 2nd half, after an ok 1st half.
They did to us what we should be doing to them breaking quick on us.
Play 4 at the back in most games but lets play Liverpool et al as we have the last 2 seasons
They did to us what we should be doing to them breaking quick on us.
Play 4 at the back in most games but lets play Liverpool et al as we have the last 2 seasons
sycophantia
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2012
- Messages
- 11,376
- Reaction score
- 5,650
Well that was disappointing. Pretty even till Coady's brain fart.
Don't see why people are screaming for a yellow for Coady, wasn't a pen but not a dive either, just trying to avoid a flying boot, looked bad cos Mane pulled his foot away at the last minute.
After the second goal we just capitulated really.
I'n not saying its all on Semedo but he doesn't look comfortable in a 4 imo....maybe Hoever?
i don't think we have the personnel to play 4-3-3, needs to be either 3-4-3 or
4-2-3-1.
In attack we were always short on numbers when we broke.
From now till xmas I'd like to see Silva starting unless he starts having regular 'mares'
Also thought Vitihna looked lively, worth more gametime imo.
Liverpool were very good once they took the lead, we were still in the game till the second went in and then it was all down hill.
Don't see why people are screaming for a yellow for Coady, wasn't a pen but not a dive either, just trying to avoid a flying boot, looked bad cos Mane pulled his foot away at the last minute.
After the second goal we just capitulated really.
I'n not saying its all on Semedo but he doesn't look comfortable in a 4 imo....maybe Hoever?
i don't think we have the personnel to play 4-3-3, needs to be either 3-4-3 or
4-2-3-1.
In attack we were always short on numbers when we broke.
From now till xmas I'd like to see Silva starting unless he starts having regular 'mares'
Also thought Vitihna looked lively, worth more gametime imo.
Liverpool were very good once they took the lead, we were still in the game till the second went in and then it was all down hill.
YoungWolf
World Cup 2014 PTG Champion - Not actually that Yo
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2010
- Messages
- 31,993
- Reaction score
- 10,615
Boly has been absolutely fine this season. West Ham aside away I can't really think of a game before tonight where I've thought he was poor. In fact even tonight I'm not sure he was that bad. Coady had more of a stinker if anything in key moments. The second goal is pretty unlucky, the ball rebounds for them perfectly when Boly had actually defended the situation OK up the pitch.
GLASGOWOLF
You OK Hun?
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2011
- Messages
- 5,050
- Reaction score
- 1,154
Thought Vithina looked good when he came on
BeaverWolf
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2011
- Messages
- 961
- Reaction score
- 508
None are here then?
Brainfart from Coady. He seems good for one a season so let's hope that's this year's version out the way. Boly was diabolical with his passing. I'm not sure what Donck is offering right now other than being tall and being able to stand in the way of the opposition - more to the point, I don't know what exactly is going on with Neves? Is he really down the pecking order now? Loss of form/bad patch? Considering he was so pivotal to how we played it seems bizarre he's the first one out/last one in at the moment.
Semedo looks shaky in a 4, but so do we as a team - didn't cover himself in glory but nobody did, really. He'd shown glimpses of improving previously so I'd not be too sure about writing him off (daft thing to do after less than a dozen games anyway)
Marcal was decent enough though he lost Matip for the 3rd so he's not off the hook either. Ait Nouri and Vitinha looked bright in limited cameos. Neto & Traore started well but the decision to switch them seemed to completely backfire, they both went quiet and suddenly Robertson was charging forward constantly when first half he wasn't anywhere near as much.
Disjointed performance again. Was expecting to go back 3 so was happy enough when we didn't but the ball didn't stick up front and the front 3 didn't link really - if we were going to go for them we should've done so full blooded, in the end we went half and half and got the worst of both worlds.
What concerns me is I'm not convinced this is something that has been worked on or is part of a cohesive long term plan. I'm speculating, as I don't know, so think of it what you will. But if Coady hadn't had to miss a game, would we ever have gone to a back 4? Or is it something we stumbled on, had some reasonable success, and thought we'd run with? Because if it is it paints a picture of making it up as we go...which isn't encouraging.
Semedo looks shaky in a 4, but so do we as a team - didn't cover himself in glory but nobody did, really. He'd shown glimpses of improving previously so I'd not be too sure about writing him off (daft thing to do after less than a dozen games anyway)
Marcal was decent enough though he lost Matip for the 3rd so he's not off the hook either. Ait Nouri and Vitinha looked bright in limited cameos. Neto & Traore started well but the decision to switch them seemed to completely backfire, they both went quiet and suddenly Robertson was charging forward constantly when first half he wasn't anywhere near as much.
Disjointed performance again. Was expecting to go back 3 so was happy enough when we didn't but the ball didn't stick up front and the front 3 didn't link really - if we were going to go for them we should've done so full blooded, in the end we went half and half and got the worst of both worlds.
What concerns me is I'm not convinced this is something that has been worked on or is part of a cohesive long term plan. I'm speculating, as I don't know, so think of it what you will. But if Coady hadn't had to miss a game, would we ever have gone to a back 4? Or is it something we stumbled on, had some reasonable success, and thought we'd run with? Because if it is it paints a picture of making it up as we go...which isn't encouraging.
prawnking
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2013
- Messages
- 6,973
- Reaction score
- 7,920
As I said before the game, I'd take a one goal defeat.
You need to perform very well to get anything from Anfield, and exceptionally so to win... as recent history has proven
Thought we played OK first half, we just don't look quite as comfortable now we have a different approach to the previous two seasons. We look like creating more chances, not so good at taking them.
Liverpool, even with a few players missing, look well drilled and know exactly what they're about. Us, not so much, I think it'll come though.
As others have said, Marcal looked very solid, would have liked us to test Williams and the goalie a bit more, but not to be
You need to perform very well to get anything from Anfield, and exceptionally so to win... as recent history has proven
Thought we played OK first half, we just don't look quite as comfortable now we have a different approach to the previous two seasons. We look like creating more chances, not so good at taking them.
Liverpool, even with a few players missing, look well drilled and know exactly what they're about. Us, not so much, I think it'll come though.
As others have said, Marcal looked very solid, would have liked us to test Williams and the goalie a bit more, but not to be
Loki
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 1,330
- Reaction score
- 491
It was an even game until that unfortunate first goal. After that they were playing with much more freedom. Switching Traore to the left exposed Semedo second half. Robertson was playing with much more freedom with not having to worry about Traore. Donk can`t head a ball for tuppence and the kid ay nowhere ready for premiership football. Methinks we need a striker.
Walnut
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2012
- Messages
- 1,166
- Reaction score
- 226
The second goal came from a mistake from Neto, he gave the ball away when in a good position near their penalty area.
Then they just scored easily, players just backing off and giving the Liverpool player plenty of time to pick his spot.
Then they just scored easily, players just backing off and giving the Liverpool player plenty of time to pick his spot.
PuntsWolf
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2010
- Messages
- 15,965
- Reaction score
- 7,794
First goal a stupid mistake. Second goal a heap of luck.
After that, largely irrelevant. Particularly after conceding from a shit set piece.
Not going to read too much into it. We could have played Silva and the ball could have have kept coming back with less protection. We could have played 5 and conceded by letting them on to us.
The back 4 got shown up against the best attacking trio in the league. I can accept that. They didn’t give Arsenal a sniff. Let’s not go overboard.
Are Boly and Coady top 6 CBs? Probably not, but we’ve not got much else so let’s give them a chance.
After that, largely irrelevant. Particularly after conceding from a shit set piece.
Not going to read too much into it. We could have played Silva and the ball could have have kept coming back with less protection. We could have played 5 and conceded by letting them on to us.
The back 4 got shown up against the best attacking trio in the league. I can accept that. They didn’t give Arsenal a sniff. Let’s not go overboard.
Are Boly and Coady top 6 CBs? Probably not, but we’ve not got much else so let’s give them a chance.
Del Woppio
Virgin geek fuckwad
- Joined
- Oct 16, 2009
- Messages
- 25,940
- Reaction score
- 12,513
Too many terrible individual performances there tbh, Semedo, Boly, Dendonker and Podence were all pretty shit. Set up was all wrong, Silva needed to start, I really don't think the move away from 4231 was particularly clever.
I know we're only 11 games in but I haven't seen anything at all from Semedo to suggest he's a £30m senior pro, I've been really disappointed with him.
Yes, it's our best start for ages, but let's be fair the fixture list was very kind. We didn't score enough goals last season, and then we sold two of our biggest goal threats. I'm on board with buying young players, but ffs play them. Give silva a run, give vitinha a run. Let them play football.
I know we're only 11 games in but I haven't seen anything at all from Semedo to suggest he's a £30m senior pro, I've been really disappointed with him.
Yes, it's our best start for ages, but let's be fair the fixture list was very kind. We didn't score enough goals last season, and then we sold two of our biggest goal threats. I'm on board with buying young players, but ffs play them. Give silva a run, give vitinha a run. Let them play football.
SSB
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2010
- Messages
- 8,298
- Reaction score
- 2,016
Not as bad as Tim Nash thinking the Liverpool fans were singing “Si Senor” in compassion for Jimenez.
jd1981
Well-known member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2011
- Messages
- 16,131
- Reaction score
- 4,509
As Mark says the 4-3-3 without a focal point just made us very passive and unbalanced in reality. Hate to say it but we look like flat track bullies at the moment ie beating those weaker than us (Arsenal included) but coming up short against the better sides in the league.
PuntsWolf
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2010
- Messages
- 15,965
- Reaction score
- 7,794
Leicester got close to finishing top 4 like that.
Norman Deeley
Dean Saunders's Press Officer
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2012
- Messages
- 5,915
- Reaction score
- 152
Have to agree with that on Semedo. He simply doesn't look a player suited to the PL. £25m on Max Aarons would surely have been better business...
Johnny75
Virtual Cock
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2011
- Messages
- 36,291
- Reaction score
- 12,473
Poor second half and agree with YW.
Donk had a very poor game, Silva isn’t ready, Vitinha is ready but has no spot with Pod , Neto and Adama in front of him.
Boly and Coady were terrible second half as was Nuno in his sub of Neves and switch of Traore and Neto.
Bad day at the office, move on, don’t kill the evolution and remember Leicester got humped here recently too.
Donk had a very poor game, Silva isn’t ready, Vitinha is ready but has no spot with Pod , Neto and Adama in front of him.
Boly and Coady were terrible second half as was Nuno in his sub of Neves and switch of Traore and Neto.
Bad day at the office, move on, don’t kill the evolution and remember Leicester got humped here recently too.
